Chris Hayes: Founder / Developer of RuckWell

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.520
So there's a few different ways that I use rucking.

00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:06.139
Doing it for wellness is really the baseline

00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:11.000
of it. And then over time, I've learned to kind

00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:15.359
of use that as like a meditation of sorts. So

00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.320
just going out for a ruck whenever I need to

00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.820
think about something or if something stresses

00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:24.000
me out has been one of my favorite ways to use

00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:32.770
it. Welcome to the Rucker's Edge podcast, a show

00:00:32.770 --> 00:00:35.130
all about rucking that is designed to help you

00:00:35.130 --> 00:00:37.570
develop a rucking routine, lose weight, and ultimately

00:00:37.570 --> 00:00:41.369
gain your strength and energy back. Whether you're

00:00:41.369 --> 00:00:43.490
an office worker with lower back pain, a fitness

00:00:43.490 --> 00:00:45.770
first -timer, or a new parent trying to get back

00:00:45.770 --> 00:00:48.229
to your pre -kids weight, this is the show for

00:00:48.229 --> 00:00:50.710
you. I'm your host, Spencer. Thanks for joining

00:00:50.710 --> 00:00:52.810
me today. I'm mixing things up with the show.

00:00:53.229 --> 00:00:55.490
I'm happy to announce that I'm now recording

00:00:55.490 --> 00:00:57.609
episodes where I sit down and have conversations

00:00:57.609 --> 00:00:59.630
with other members of the rucking community.

00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:02.679
I've got several lined up for you, but today's

00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:05.760
episode features the first one. I'm happy to

00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.099
introduce Chris Hayes as my first guest. Chris

00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:11.620
is the founder and developer of RuckWell, an

00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:14.159
app that thousands of ruckers are using to track

00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.000
their rucks and improve their wellness. We had

00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.840
a great conversation. We talked about how he

00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:22.859
got started in rucking, why he continues to ruck,

00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.079
why he created the Ruckwell app, and the resource

00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:28.400
he developed to educate his friends and family

00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:31.329
about rucking. All right, enough with the intro.

00:01:31.750 --> 00:01:35.390
Here's my conversation with Chris Hayes. Chris

00:01:35.390 --> 00:01:37.609
Hayes, welcome to the Rucker’s Edge podcast. It's

00:01:37.609 --> 00:01:39.430
really good to have you here, man. Hey, thanks

00:01:39.430 --> 00:01:42.140
for having me. You know, I'm very grateful you

00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:44.040
agreed to come on because I've seen some of your

00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.180
posts on social media about your previous rucking

00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:48.939
experiences and where you are in terms of your

00:01:48.939 --> 00:01:50.379
life, you know, being a husband and a father.

00:01:50.420 --> 00:01:53.760
And on top of that, managing and creating Ruckwell,

00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:55.879
which is an amazing app I've recently started

00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:58.500
using. And I'm looking forward to this conversation.

00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:00.879
So thanks again for being here. Yeah, me too.

00:02:01.939 --> 00:02:03.719
You know, I guess I just want to start out with

00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:06.799
a little bit of your, you know, your rucking

00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:09.949
background. I'm curious, who or what got you

00:02:09.949 --> 00:02:14.889
into rucking? My brother -in -law had this Saturday

00:02:14.889 --> 00:02:18.569
morning workout group for a few years. It changed

00:02:18.569 --> 00:02:22.889
forms. It was something like hill sprints, hiking,

00:02:23.229 --> 00:02:27.650
and then eventually it turned into rucking, and

00:02:27.650 --> 00:02:32.050
that's when he invited me out. He gave me a very

00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:34.949
brief intro, but not enough to really know what

00:02:34.949 --> 00:02:40.020
I was getting myself into. But it was fun. After

00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:44.680
a couple of times, he told me about this GoWork

00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.659
event that was happening probably about five

00:02:47.659 --> 00:02:51.539
months after that. And it sounded interesting.

00:02:51.699 --> 00:02:56.740
So that's really where I started and just kind

00:02:56.740 --> 00:02:59.039
of kept up with it from there. Awesome. So like

00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.419
what year would that have been? That was probably

00:03:02.419 --> 00:03:08.460
2016, 2017. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So you've been in

00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:11.039
the rucking, I guess, area for quite some time

00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.580
now. And that first go -ruck event, what was

00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:17.800
that like? In terms of like prep for it, did

00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:21.599
you have any like, I don't know, regimented workouts

00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.300
you had to do beforehand? Or did you just jump

00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:27.120
into it after working out on those Saturdays

00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.159
for a few months or so? Yeah. So my brother -in

00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.340
-law left the details pretty sparse. Wanted to

00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:36.400
have that kind of air of mystique around it.

00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.500
Sure. So I didn't really know going into the

00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:44.120
event what I was doing, but he did have me basically

00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.500
just ruck as often as I could. As far as like

00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:50.580
training programs, I did sign up for Pathfinder.

00:03:51.500 --> 00:03:54.300
Pathfinder ruck training, which was really great

00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:58.500
to begin my journey. And that kind of helped

00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:00.759
me prepare, at least on the rucking side, to

00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:04.340
get into it. That's awesome. Yeah, I've read

00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:07.319
a lot about Pathfinder. I've never actually been

00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:09.840
associated with myself, but it seems like a really

00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.819
good plan, I suppose. And with that, did you

00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:16.579
have any early rucking goals or did you have

00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:18.680
anything that you wanted to accomplish outside

00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:22.560
of the, I guess, the GoRuck event? Initially,

00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.980
I was just trying to do what I can before that

00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:30.420
event. Not knowing what I was doing, really,

00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.649
I just tried to do as much as I could. Um, but

00:04:33.649 --> 00:04:36.250
didn't have any sort of like structured thing

00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:39.889
beyond, um, just following the Pathfinder, which

00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:45.050
Pathfinder very briefly is the event. That's

00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:48.129
awesome. And then like, you know, as, as a new

00:04:48.129 --> 00:04:50.269
rucker, you know, I, I recently started getting

00:04:50.269 --> 00:04:53.250
serious about rucking and, uh, was previously

00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:55.730
using just, um, you know, like a regular backpack

00:04:55.730 --> 00:04:57.990
that I had stowed away in the closet. I'm curious

00:04:57.990 --> 00:04:59.490
when you started rucking, what, what kind of

00:04:59.490 --> 00:05:02.879
gear were you using? Yeah, so my first few sessions,

00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:07.540
I used a Walmart special. Nice. It was whatever

00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:10.019
cheap bag I could find, and it actually did have

00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:14.899
a, again, cheap water bladder in it. But I quickly

00:05:14.899 --> 00:05:18.639
realized that was not going to be a long -term

00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.519
solution. And so at that point, I was ready to

00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:28.379
kind of jump in. So I did purchase a Go Rucker.

00:05:29.709 --> 00:05:33.569
i think it was a version two yeah so it fit like

00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:38.269
plates in um these like weird pockets but it's

00:05:38.269 --> 00:05:41.629
a step behind what they have today sure yeah

00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:44.290
what they're on like four i think right now and

00:05:44.290 --> 00:05:47.290
uh yeah i mean i don't have any of the go rec

00:05:47.290 --> 00:05:50.629
gear in terms of uh plates or uh rucksack i have

00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:53.230
their the go ruck mccall's and i mean if the

00:05:53.230 --> 00:05:54.889
rest of the gear is anything like these shoes

00:05:54.889 --> 00:05:57.360
man they're like Bomb proof. These things are

00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:59.500
awesome. So I can I can only imagine and just

00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:01.519
reading all the reviews about their gear in general.

00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:05.160
It's really well, well built. I saw you have

00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:07.899
some of the sandbags, too, if I remember correctly.

00:06:08.300 --> 00:06:11.959
I have a wide variety of their stuff. Yeah, I

00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.420
joined and got started at a time where there

00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:19.480
wasn't a ton of like other known brands. So the

00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:22.810
go rock was really the thing to get. So, yeah,

00:06:22.870 --> 00:06:26.189
I got I got a few rucks and sandbags and mostly

00:06:26.189 --> 00:06:28.829
first party plates and things like that. Gotcha.

00:06:28.949 --> 00:06:31.149
Well, yeah, it sounds like you dove all in on

00:06:31.149 --> 00:06:33.589
rucking. I'm curious, like, what is it about

00:06:33.589 --> 00:06:36.149
rucking as opposed to like other exercises that

00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:40.069
that you enjoy or keeps you coming back? So there's

00:06:40.069 --> 00:06:43.790
a few different ways that I use rucking and it

00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:48.149
kind of depends on like my position in life,

00:06:48.209 --> 00:06:51.189
like whether I can actually dedicate it to. training

00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:53.750
for an event or if I'm just kind of doing it

00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:56.389
for wellness. But doing it for wellness is really

00:06:56.389 --> 00:07:01.910
the baseline of it. And then over time, I've

00:07:01.910 --> 00:07:04.990
learned to kind of use that as like a meditation

00:07:04.990 --> 00:07:08.170
of sorts. So just going out for a rock whenever

00:07:08.170 --> 00:07:11.069
I need to think about something or if something

00:07:11.069 --> 00:07:14.970
stresses me out has been one of my favorite ways

00:07:14.970 --> 00:07:18.410
to use it, although I use it fairly strategically.

00:07:19.449 --> 00:07:21.769
And it's good for that. But yeah, if I'm training

00:07:21.769 --> 00:07:26.829
for an event, then I can be a lot more specific

00:07:26.829 --> 00:07:29.370
about trying to have certain goals and doing

00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:32.250
incremental progress towards that event. Oh,

00:07:32.329 --> 00:07:36.389
absolutely. I definitely resonate with the reflective

00:07:36.389 --> 00:07:39.870
nature that at least I tend to get into when

00:07:39.870 --> 00:07:42.310
I ruck. I had some personal issues I was working

00:07:42.310 --> 00:07:45.310
out a few months back, and that's when I started

00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:47.509
taking rucking seriously. And it's amazing how...

00:07:48.340 --> 00:07:51.560
How easier, how much, yeah, I guess ease, like

00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.639
how easy it is to kind of get into that like

00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.680
reflective state when you're when you're rucking

00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:59.060
as opposed to, in my experience, rowing or doing

00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:01.680
some other sort of exercise. And of course, you

00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.480
know, like rucks are kind of long. So you have

00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.720
all that time to think about a problem or issue

00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.240
that, you know, you could be facing. It's very

00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:11.779
therapeutic. So I agree with you on that. That's

00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:15.029
great. So looking back on, you know. You said

00:08:15.029 --> 00:08:16.810
you started in 2016. Yeah, that's quite some

00:08:16.810 --> 00:08:19.410
time ago. What's one moment or ruck that really

00:08:19.410 --> 00:08:22.550
changed your perspective on this form of training?

00:08:23.470 --> 00:08:26.069
So the rucks that stand out to me are really

00:08:26.069 --> 00:08:29.290
the events because those are obviously special

00:08:29.290 --> 00:08:34.629
in nature. And one of my rucks I did at a GORK

00:08:34.629 --> 00:08:38.610
event was for my HDL. And I did that with my

00:08:38.610 --> 00:08:42.169
brothers -in -law. And that as an experience

00:08:42.169 --> 00:08:45.700
brought us closer together. Because the HTL is,

00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:49.460
you know, a two -day thing. Three events, three

00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:52.200
Gorka events kind of smashed together. And so

00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.159
my brother -in -law and other people basically

00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.799
carried me through in some ways. It was a very

00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:02.759
impactful ruck for us. That's great. Yeah, I'm

00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:04.379
sure that's a core memory that you're going to

00:09:04.379 --> 00:09:06.740
be holding on to for quite some time. And forgive

00:09:06.740 --> 00:09:09.259
me, Chris, I'm not familiar with what HTL is.

00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.019
Okay, so HTL, I think now it's called HTB if

00:09:13.019 --> 00:09:16.090
they still do it. It's the Go Rock Heavy Tough

00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:20.230
Light event. Ah, okay. Gotcha. It's the 48 hours

00:09:20.230 --> 00:09:23.970
heavy and then five or so hour break. And then

00:09:23.970 --> 00:09:25.529
you do a tough and light kind of back to back.

00:09:26.289 --> 00:09:28.809
Cool. Man, that's awesome. Since we're talking

00:09:28.809 --> 00:09:31.009
about community and I've seen some of your social

00:09:31.009 --> 00:09:34.370
posts and your profiles, you're a dad of multiple

00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:39.620
kids. I have kids too. It's a hectic, busy schedule

00:09:39.620 --> 00:09:42.679
on my end, as I'm sure it is on yours. I'm curious,

00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:45.399
how do you find the time to get in a workout

00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:50.139
or get in a ruck? So I have to find different

00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:54.460
ways to make it fit. Lately, it's been I try

00:09:54.460 --> 00:09:57.419
and get up early enough that I can go for a ruck

00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:00.299
or whatever exercise I'm doing that day before

00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:03.899
I have to go to work. But over the years, it's

00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.960
been different because I have four kids. Everything

00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.080
kind of changes seasonally. Yeah, I definitely

00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.500
understand. I do something similar. I try to

00:10:14.500 --> 00:10:18.340
squeeze in workouts when I make sure everybody

00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:20.200
else's needs are met and everybody's sleeping

00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.419
and happy. And then I then I will do a workout

00:10:22.419 --> 00:10:24.620
in the backyard. And then for rucks, you know,

00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:26.820
if I'm going on a run, a long ruck, I have to

00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:30.460
plan that in advance. I got to coordinate. Nap

00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:33.399
time and, you know, communication is definitely

00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.100
key with the spouse, making sure that, you know,

00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.059
that she's taken care of, the kids are taken

00:10:38.059 --> 00:10:40.220
care of, so I can go on this, you know, hour

00:10:40.220 --> 00:10:44.759
-plus expedition, essentially. But, yeah, I feel

00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.539
you on that. So hearing about your experience

00:10:47.539 --> 00:10:49.360
with rucking, you know, go -ruck events and how

00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.700
you started several years back, you clearly became

00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:54.639
passionate about rucking, but I imagine tracking

00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.279
your progress became important. How were you

00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:00.539
tracking your rucks back then? There weren't

00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:03.580
a whole lot of tools when I first got started.

00:11:04.659 --> 00:11:08.559
The Apple Watch first came out around that time,

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.000
and so I was trying to use it to track a ruck,

00:11:12.139 --> 00:11:15.700
but the apps just weren't very good. And then

00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:18.059
the phone ones were fine, but nothing spectacular.

00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:23.559
So when I first got started, really just using

00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.740
whatever walking app there was, and then plugging

00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:30.950
into that Pathfinder log. I see. The Pathfinder

00:11:30.950 --> 00:11:34.029
log, was it on the computer or was it like a

00:11:34.029 --> 00:11:36.990
notepad and pen situation? They have a website

00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:40.250
where you can enter your rucking details and

00:11:40.250 --> 00:11:42.870
then they'll calculate totals and stuff for you.

00:11:43.330 --> 00:11:46.830
Oh, I see. But it's within their program. I understand.

00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:49.690
I understand. So you record it on a device and

00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:51.149
take that information and plug it in somewhere

00:11:51.149 --> 00:11:54.870
else. Okay. What problems were you experiencing

00:11:54.870 --> 00:11:59.519
with tracking your rucks that way? So the program

00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:02.940
for Pathfinder kind of resets every three months.

00:12:03.139 --> 00:12:07.039
So your log, you start at zero for every session.

00:12:07.379 --> 00:12:10.740
And so there wasn't a whole lot of long -term

00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:13.740
planning, long -term progress that you're able

00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:16.840
to view within that. And so I was looking for

00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.299
something to basically dump all of my workout

00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:23.799
data in one place and see the history over the

00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:25.840
long term. Certainly. Yeah, there's definitely

00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:31.120
value. And tracking workouts over a long span

00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.840
of time just to see progress and keep you motivated.

00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.940
In my experience, for someone just starting with

00:12:37.940 --> 00:12:41.120
rucking, why would you say tracking is important?

00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:43.299
I mean, I just listed a few, you know, motivation

00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:46.820
and, you know, just observing your overall stats

00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:49.580
long term. But in your opinion, you know, I guess,

00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:53.320
why should somebody track their rucks? For most

00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:57.240
people, it is helpful to see incremental progress.

00:12:58.009 --> 00:13:01.769
Not every product allows you to actually see

00:13:01.769 --> 00:13:05.029
at a certain detail, but it's helpful to see

00:13:05.029 --> 00:13:06.710
like, oh yeah, I'm getting a little bit faster

00:13:06.710 --> 00:13:09.970
here and there, or I'm doing a certain weight

00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:12.570
and it's becoming easier, that kind of thing.

00:13:13.190 --> 00:13:18.990
And being able to see like your totals for a

00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:22.809
certain time period, it helps to have that kind

00:13:22.809 --> 00:13:27.159
of goal in mind. Yeah, I agree. You just talked

00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.019
about totals. That's one of my favorite things

00:13:30.019 --> 00:13:33.240
to go and look up. So I have a Garmin watch.

00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.320
And so I've been using Garmin. I just recently

00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.360
started using Rockwell, which I guess I have

00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.460
some questions about that coming up, if you don't

00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:44.980
mind. But I definitely like pulling up, you know,

00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.840
how far I've gone the past, you know, week, month,

00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:53.090
year. It's kind of fun to kind of calculate how

00:13:53.090 --> 00:13:55.590
much weight I've had on my back during those

00:13:55.590 --> 00:13:59.470
rucks too. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:14:00.350 --> 00:14:03.470
Before we jump into the app, I'm curious your

00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:05.830
thoughts on this, but what are the biggest mistakes

00:14:05.830 --> 00:14:09.450
you see new ruckers make when it comes to progression

00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:13.110
and tracking? There are two things that come

00:14:13.110 --> 00:14:16.490
to mind. The first is trying to compare themselves

00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:21.840
to what other people are doing. facebook groups

00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.139
we can see people asking questions about like

00:14:24.139 --> 00:14:26.840
my pace is this with this weight like is that

00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.940
good and that kind of falls into a trap of like

00:14:30.940 --> 00:14:34.299
you're comparing yourself to other people and

00:14:34.299 --> 00:14:36.419
what do they say rather than kind of listening

00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:40.019
to yourself or your body and seeing how you progress

00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:43.259
but the other side of it is trying to progress

00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:45.980
too quickly and so you see people jump from like

00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:49.500
10 20 to 40 50 pounds and there are crazy people

00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:52.450
that go Until the hundreds and beyond, which

00:14:52.450 --> 00:14:55.490
baffles me, but that's perhaps another story.

00:14:56.009 --> 00:14:58.809
Oh, for sure. I mean, I've said this multiple

00:14:58.809 --> 00:15:01.490
times on the podcast. I am guilty of taking too

00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:04.490
big of jumps for rucks just out of my impatient

00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:07.730
nature. And yeah, it set me back a few weeks

00:15:07.730 --> 00:15:09.990
here and there just along my own rucking plan.

00:15:10.190 --> 00:15:12.970
OK, so like it sounds like, you know, these these

00:15:12.970 --> 00:15:17.990
tracking frustrations, I guess, led you to creating.

00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.340
Rockwell. Is that right? I guess what I'd like

00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:23.879
to know is what inspired you to create the app

00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:29.320
Rockwell? So I had the idea for Rockwell way

00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.519
back pretty much when I first got started and

00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.600
just having the frustration of the apps at the

00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.159
time. I mentioned the watch basically didn't

00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.940
work for me. And so I wanted to create something

00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:44.580
where it did. And so over the years, the tools

00:15:44.580 --> 00:15:49.259
changed. thought process around what I wanted

00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:53.740
to get out of the app changed. Rockwell initially

00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:57.100
was called something else, but it was really

00:15:57.100 --> 00:16:00.200
just the tracking aspect of it. And then this

00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.460
whole side of wellness became more important

00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.539
in my life. And so I wanted to kind of incorporate

00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:09.279
that into the overall design for Rockwell as

00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.269
a company in an app. That is a that's a great,

00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:15.470
great why. I'm curious, your own personal wildness

00:16:15.470 --> 00:16:18.370
journey. Did having kids have anything to do

00:16:18.370 --> 00:16:21.330
with that? Like with me, I didn't start taking

00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:23.389
my health crazy serious until I started having

00:16:23.389 --> 00:16:25.269
dependence. I don't know if that's the same situation

00:16:25.269 --> 00:16:28.470
you were in or not. Yeah, absolutely. And I had

00:16:28.470 --> 00:16:33.909
a story of when I got my back, had a dislocated

00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:38.190
disc at one point. And that kind of. put me on

00:16:38.190 --> 00:16:39.990
the trajectory of, oh, I need to pay attention

00:16:39.990 --> 00:16:43.450
to this side of things. That's certainly a great

00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:46.909
motivator. Absolutely, man. So with the app,

00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:49.009
so when I downloaded it, I think I saw it was

00:16:49.009 --> 00:16:54.289
version 25 .7. I'm so curious about the early

00:16:54.289 --> 00:16:57.169
stages of it. Like, what did that look like?

00:16:57.190 --> 00:17:00.570
What did version one look like for Rockwell?

00:17:01.169 --> 00:17:04.369
Yeah, so there were a few phases of development.

00:17:05.049 --> 00:17:07.509
As I like to think about it, the first phase

00:17:07.509 --> 00:17:11.009
was really just trying to create something simple

00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:15.450
and yet effective and useful for people. So that

00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:18.970
for the iPhone came out about a year and a half

00:17:18.970 --> 00:17:23.009
ago. Over time, I've added different features,

00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:26.289
tried to make it a little bit more useful and

00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:30.029
really evolved the app in different ways over

00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:34.750
time. Awesome. Yeah, I mean. And when I logged

00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:37.450
my first ruck and I got in there, I was just

00:17:37.450 --> 00:17:40.250
expecting to see that I could track a ruck. But

00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:43.269
there's, let's see here. There's, I'm pulling

00:17:43.269 --> 00:17:46.890
it up. There's rucking. You can track runs, walks,

00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:49.730
cross training, and even sauna. And I'm interested

00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:52.029
just to maybe look into sauna a little bit more.

00:17:52.109 --> 00:17:55.190
Is that something that you do or have done in

00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:59.230
the past? Yeah, so that is part of the wellness

00:17:59.230 --> 00:18:04.180
aspect, right? So sauna, cold plunge. Um, those

00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:06.880
fall into the sort of optimization category of

00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:09.220
what I like to think about it. Um, but it's really

00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:12.440
getting more out of your body by doing some of

00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.319
those fringe things. But yeah, I do incorporate

00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.460
like strength training. Um, there's mobility.

00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.759
Those are all aspects to a fully thought through

00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:25.880
program that I encourage other people to take

00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.210
advantage of for sure. And now it's making sense.

00:18:29.250 --> 00:18:31.130
Maybe I'm slow or something. But yeah, the name

00:18:31.130 --> 00:18:34.250
of the app is Ruck Well. So it's part of like,

00:18:34.329 --> 00:18:40.670
yeah, your wellness routine. Ruck Well has two

00:18:40.670 --> 00:18:44.869
meanings. The first is to be proficient at rucking,

00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:47.930
right? But yes, it's also the combination of

00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:51.809
rucking and wellness. I like that. I like that

00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:55.359
a lot. So I guess, in your opinion, what is Rockwell's

00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.519
best feature? Or like, if you had to choose just

00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.259
one, what do you think your favorite would be?

00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:03.099
The best feature is probably the ability to combine

00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:07.099
those different modalities into a single program

00:19:07.099 --> 00:19:11.460
and app that tracks all of it. The most complicated

00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:14.400
feature is the calorie algorithm, but that's

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.559
not exactly flashy. Sure. No, I totally get that.

00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:22.329
And, you know, I'm curious, like... You talked

00:19:22.329 --> 00:19:25.109
about calorie. I know there's certain calculations

00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:27.670
that go into that. Another metric or I guess

00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.049
another feature that is in Ruckwell that I saw,

00:19:30.170 --> 00:19:32.069
I'm just not familiar with it. And I was hoping

00:19:32.069 --> 00:19:34.190
maybe you can provide me some insight on what

00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:36.589
it is and maybe how people should use it is the

00:19:36.589 --> 00:19:41.210
Ruck Power metric. So Ruck Work and Ruck Power

00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:44.309
were both metrics that I had heard of in GoRuck

00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:48.250
circles. And that's when I created Ruckwell,

00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:53.680
I brought those. into the app. Um, but rec work

00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:58.079
is just weight times distance. And then rec power

00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:02.980
is that rec work divided by time. Um, so rec

00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:06.640
work is essentially a total volume. You know,

00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:08.740
there are other sports where you kind of have

00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:12.079
this overall volume load. Um, so rec work is

00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.799
an equivalent of that. And then rec power is

00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:18.680
more about the intensity. Um, and it can help

00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.880
If you have different rucks of differing distances

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:29.240
or weights and things, it can help kind of equate

00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.839
them. So, you know, like, am I actually progressing

00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:36.079
in different ways? I see. That makes a lot of

00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.720
sense. Maybe you wanted to see how much work

00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.740
you're putting into hill repeats versus a 5 -mile

00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:44.900
20 -pounder or something like that. You can kind

00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:48.059
of compare intensity across the different types

00:20:48.059 --> 00:20:50.619
of rucks you go on. Yeah, and I will say there

00:20:50.619 --> 00:20:54.720
is one caveat to this is that it does not take

00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.819
into account elevation. Because when I heard

00:20:57.819 --> 00:21:01.539
about it through GoRuck, it didn't. I have a

00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:04.579
tentative plan to solve that, but I'm not currently

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:07.630
ready to share it. Gotcha. That's awesome. So

00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:10.430
it sounds like you're constantly trying to innovate

00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:15.130
or, I guess, improve, rather, the app? Oh, yeah.

00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:17.630
I'm always trying to incorporate new things.

00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:22.009
I'm experimenting a lot with the wellness side

00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:24.250
of the app and what I want to build into that.

00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:27.710
And I should have more to share on that hopefully

00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:30.990
soon. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm very curious

00:21:30.990 --> 00:21:34.140
and I'll be keeping an ear out for that. And

00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:36.599
so moving on, I just have a few more questions

00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.059
about Rockwell. But, you know, we've already

00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:42.019
touched about like why people should use it and

00:21:42.019 --> 00:21:45.519
what some of the metrics that it tracks, how

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:47.779
they can be used for applied. But what's the

00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:50.920
most surprising thing you've learned from user

00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:55.759
feedback on the app? When I first built the app,

00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:59.480
I pretty much built it for me. And when I started

00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.319
getting feedback, I realized there are. different

00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:06.579
types of ways that people used the app or different

00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:09.839
ways that people rocked and that came through

00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.519
common feature requests for example pause was

00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:17.240
a big one because i don't typically stop when

00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:20.180
i rock but people you know the classic example

00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:22.880
is somebody's walking the dog and they stop to

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.460
do their thing and they would like to pause so

00:22:25.460 --> 00:22:29.819
having Different ways that people wanted to use

00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:32.640
it kind of opened my eyes to different types

00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.700
of people and different ways to make those accommodations.

00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:41.779
More with Chris in just a moment, including information

00:22:41.779 --> 00:22:44.519
on an upcoming update to Ruckwell, as well as

00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:46.940
information on a resource he created about rucking

00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:49.440
for his friends and family that he has made available

00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.440
to the public. But I want to take a quick break

00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:54.500
to say thanks so much for listening to this podcast.

00:22:55.309 --> 00:22:57.089
Please share this episode with a fellow Rucker

00:22:57.089 --> 00:22:59.549
that might find this episode interesting or a

00:22:59.549 --> 00:23:02.630
friend that could benefit from Rucking. Sharing

00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:05.289
this episode would help the show grow and help

00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:08.029
more people improve their health and lives through

00:23:08.029 --> 00:23:12.750
Rucking. Okay, back to it. Now, it's my understanding

00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:16.329
that it's currently only available on iPhone.

00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:20.470
Are you working on an Android version? Yeah,

00:23:20.490 --> 00:23:22.589
I've been working on the Android version for

00:23:22.589 --> 00:23:26.799
some time. It is very close. It is not quite

00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.380
ready yet. It is in open testing right now. And

00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:35.079
I do hope that in the next week or two, it'll

00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:37.960
be ready for full release. But there's just a

00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:41.140
couple of things to iron out. Cool. Okay, one

00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:43.299
last question on Rockwell before I move on to

00:23:43.299 --> 00:23:46.119
another product that you have out. But I want

00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:49.599
to get your opinion on this or kind of have some

00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:56.069
insight. I see snapshots of Ruckers using Ruckwell

00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:58.670
and showing the work that they're doing, the

00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:00.569
progress they're making. When you're scrolling

00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:03.269
through Facebook groups and you see a snapshot

00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:05.849
of your app, what are you feeling? How does that

00:24:05.849 --> 00:24:10.630
make you feel? It brings me a lot of joy to create

00:24:10.630 --> 00:24:13.430
a product that other people find useful. And

00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:16.140
so when I see screenshots... and people saying,

00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:19.720
oh, I did this awesome ruck. Here's the stats

00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.779
and stuff. Like, yeah, I feel great that they're

00:24:22.779 --> 00:24:26.200
using ruck well to track their rucks and make

00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.960
meaningful improvement. Yeah, I bet. I bet to

00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.579
see people using a tool that you spent a lot

00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:34.759
of time and effort on and it's actually improving

00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:37.180
lives that that must be a really good feeling.

00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:40.140
And thank you for creating a tool for us to use

00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:43.059
to to help motivate ourselves, other people and

00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:46.980
to continue our wellness journey. But you have

00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.920
another product I saw on the website. It's called

00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.140
Rucking 101. It looks like it's an e -book. It

00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:54.380
is. Yeah. And I actually created that before

00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:58.240
the app was released. I had been working on the

00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.940
app for some time. But I was getting a lot of

00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:04.740
questions from friends and family who knew I

00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:07.839
was into this rucking thing. But they basically

00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.200
said, what is that and why should I do it? And

00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:16.299
so I spent too much time explaining that over

00:25:16.299 --> 00:25:17.940
and over again. So I wanted to create something

00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.759
that I could just basically hand out. That is

00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:24.299
a really, really good idea. I did take a look

00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:26.400
at it and some really good information about

00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.859
how to start. And there's some safety aspect

00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:31.839
to it, too. So it definitely looks like you put

00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.220
a lot of thought and effort into that as well.

00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.759
And several cited resources in there, too, which

00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:39.519
is really cool to see towards the end there.

00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.259
Is that something that was a one and done or

00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:46.039
are you going to be are you are you updating

00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:48.680
that as well? Like you make updates to them to

00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:53.460
to Rockwell? So it was meant to be. kind of this

00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:57.319
no fluff, like introduction, like here are the

00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.960
benefits to rocking and how to get started. Some

00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.240
feedback I heard after I released it was there's

00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:08.319
not enough, basically any like personal stories

00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.900
or opinions or things like that in there. Recommendations.

00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:16.519
So I am working on a version to add some more

00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.240
about like my thoughts and history in there.

00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:23.519
And like I said, it was before I, created the

00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.180
app or released it so there's no like here's

00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:29.420
how to use rockwell in there so i do want to

00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:32.299
add that as well cool yeah no that makes sense

00:26:32.299 --> 00:26:35.440
some some personal insight definitely and if

00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.019
if someone reads the the ebook what's one change

00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:40.279
they will be able to to make in their training

00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:45.660
right away so it is made for someone who doesn't

00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.859
really already do it so really my hope is that

00:26:48.859 --> 00:26:51.240
they'll read it and say oh i should give this

00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.099
thing a try Nice. Yeah, I like that. I like that.

00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.059
And, you know, before doing a rapid fire round,

00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:00.240
Chris, I had a great time chatting with you.

00:27:00.579 --> 00:27:03.680
And for the listeners out there who want to check

00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.579
out Ruckwell or grab a copy of Rucking 101, where

00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:09.079
should they go? You can go to ruckwell .com.

00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:12.599
And then if someone wants to reach out to you

00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:14.680
with feedback or questions, what's the best way

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.730
for them to do that? You can email me support

00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:21.589
at ruckwell .com or find me on Instagram or Facebook

00:27:21.589 --> 00:27:25.130
and message me there. All right. So let's end

00:27:25.130 --> 00:27:27.910
the podcast episode with a rapid fire round.

00:27:27.970 --> 00:27:30.049
And these are just sort of quick. You can elaborate

00:27:30.049 --> 00:27:32.650
if you want to, but just whatever comes off the

00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:36.059
top of your head. What was your, well, we already

00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:37.420
talked about it. My first question was, what

00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:38.779
was your first ruck sack? But you already talked

00:27:38.779 --> 00:27:40.640
about that. It was the Walmart special, which

00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.740
I really like how you put that. But we'll skip

00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.359
to number two. If you could only ruck one trail

00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:48.200
for the rest of your life, what trail would that

00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.759
be? Well, being close to home, there's a local

00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:57.500
state park that I go to fairly often. I would

00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:00.279
like to say, you know, I could get out to like

00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.779
the Appalachian Trail or something, but. Logistically,

00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:06.160
it would have to be the one that's close by.

00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:09.160
I am all about state parks and public places.

00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.359
That's where I do most of my rucking as well.

00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.140
Next one. What's your favorite non -rucking workout?

00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:19.619
So right now it is probably running because I'm

00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:22.819
training for a 50 miler in a few months. But

00:28:22.819 --> 00:28:26.339
really, I like to strength train, you know, traditional

00:28:26.339 --> 00:28:31.720
like five by five lifts. Nice. 50 miler. We don't

00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:33.720
have time to discuss that now, but I would definitely

00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.480
be interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:38.740
Next one. What do you listen to when you rock?

00:28:40.299 --> 00:28:44.799
Most of the time, it's a music playlist, really

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.700
just to kind of give me a beat to go at. I do

00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:51.859
take intentional time and don't listen to anything

00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:54.799
for a little bit. And then, of course, there

00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.319
are times where I'm behind on my podcast, so

00:28:57.319 --> 00:29:00.339
I'll do that as well. Last one. What is your

00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:03.819
bucket list wrecking trail? Well already mentioned

00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:08.359
the Appalachian Although I do think it would

00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:11.799
be awesome to travel to like Hawaii or some of

00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:15.059
these like tropical places that have Different

00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:18.559
trails to explore like the islands and things

00:29:19.130 --> 00:29:21.269
Oh, for sure. Something that's completely wild

00:29:21.269 --> 00:29:24.230
to your routine rucking trails. Yeah, I get that.

00:29:24.710 --> 00:29:27.569
Well, Chris, this has been fantastic, man. I

00:29:27.569 --> 00:29:29.789
had a great time talking. Thanks so much for

00:29:29.789 --> 00:29:31.569
taking the time to be here today. And thanks

00:29:31.569 --> 00:29:34.150
again for creating such an impactful tool for

00:29:34.150 --> 00:29:37.549
the rucking community. And best of luck to all

00:29:37.549 --> 00:29:41.069
the additional versions of the app and with updates

00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:44.109
to Rucking 101. So again, Chris, really appreciate

00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:46.049
you being here. Thanks, man. Of course. Thanks

00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:49.549
for having me. All right, that wraps up my conversation

00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:51.670
with Chris Hayes. I hope you picked up on some

00:29:51.670 --> 00:29:54.130
valuable takeaways. One that stood out to me

00:29:54.130 --> 00:29:56.710
was that it sounds like Android users may very

00:29:56.710 --> 00:29:59.569
soon be able to use the Ruckwell app. You can

00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:02.549
connect with Chris at ruckwell .com or on Instagram

00:30:02.549 --> 00:30:06.069
at ruck underscore well. And I'll drop those

00:30:06.069 --> 00:30:08.250
links as well as his email address in the show

00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:10.750
notes. If you want to reach out to me, head on

00:30:10.750 --> 00:30:13.789
over to theruckersedge .com or on Instagram at

00:30:13.789 --> 00:30:17.079
theruckersedgepod. If you enjoyed today's episode,

00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.299
make sure to follow or subscribe to The Rucker's

00:30:19.299 --> 00:30:21.819
Edge so you're notified of new episodes. And

00:30:21.819 --> 00:30:23.779
you're not going to want to miss next week's

00:30:23.779 --> 00:30:26.619
episode because we're talking with Mike Smith.

00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.920
Mike is planning on completing an ultramarathon

00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.940
with 100 pounds strapped to his back. I can't

00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:35.299
wait for you to listen to the episode. Until

00:30:35.299 --> 00:30:37.480
then, I hope you all are having great rucks out

00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:39.980
in this amazing fall weather. Thank you again

00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:42.480
so much for listening to this episode of The

00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.000
Rucker's Edge.