Rucking in the Snow and Ruck Design with Dan Vinson from Wild Gym

WEBVTT

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Have you ever seen people rucking through snow

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and ice and wondered whether that's smart training

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or just asking to get hurt? In this episode,

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we break down what actually changes when you

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ruck in cold weather and snow, what doesn't change

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as much as people think, and how to approach

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winter rucking safely and confidently, even if

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you've never walked on snow before. You'll learn

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how traction affects stability, how to dress

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so you don't sweat yourself into trouble, and

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why pack design matters more when footing gets

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unpredictable. My guest today is Dan Vinson,

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founder of Wild Gym, a mountain athlete and former

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wildland firefighter. Dan shares practical experience

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-based insights on winter rucking, gear selection,

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and how to manage load, balance, and fatigue

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when conditions get real. You're listening to

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the Rucker's Edge podcast, a show all about rucking

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that is designed to help you improve your rucking

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routine, lose weight and ultimately gain your

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strength and energy back. Each episode dives

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into the science, stories and strategies behind

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rucking. You'll learn from top ruckers, coaches,

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health and fitness experts and performance specialists

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who break down what it takes to train smarter,

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recover faster and stay ready for the next challenge.

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So whether you're new to rucking or an experienced

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rucker that's already logged hundreds of miles,

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this is the show for you. I'm your host, Spencer.

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Thanks for listening in. As someone that lives

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in a hot and humid climate with very little exposure

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to snow and ice, I can't help but wonder how

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different it must be to rucking in a cold weather

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environment. I wanted to learn what it's like

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rucking on snow and ice, and I couldn't think

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of a better person to have on the show to have

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this discussion than Dan Vinson. I had loads

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of questions about what it takes to successfully

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ruck in the snow. So a few listeners that are

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used to rucking in snow, I apologize. This episode

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may not provide as much value as our other episodes,

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but I encourage you to stick around still because

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Dan goes into detail about the construction and

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design of the Wild Jim rucks. And he also teases

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an update to one of Wild Jim's products. All

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right, here's my conversation with Dan Vinson.

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Dan, thank you so much for joining me here on

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the Rutgers Edge podcast. It's really an honor

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to have you here. I have a lot of questions for

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you. As I mentioned in an email previously, I

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live below sea level in a very hot climate, and

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you live well above sea level in a very cold

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climate. So I want to talk to you about rucking

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in the snow, and I feel like you have a lot of

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expertise to share with us today. So thanks for

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joining us today. Yeah, no, thanks for having

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me, Spencer. I want to start with your background,

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rucking. How long have you personally been rucking?

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And I guess what originally drew you to rucking

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for fitness? So I was a Division I college athlete.

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I played lacrosse in college. And training has

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always been a part of my life. I went to a prep

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school for high school. I was an All -American

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in high school. And just training was always

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very integral to my, I guess, athletic success.

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I'm not that big of a guy. I'm like barely 5

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'8". So I'm just not that big. So training was

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very important. I can't remember the first time

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I rucked intentionally, but what I would also

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add is, so I was a college athlete. I was also

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a wilderness ranger and wildland firefighter.

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So backpacking or walking with heavy packs was

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just, that's been something I've been doing since

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I was in high school. You know, we'd go backpacking

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in the Sierras. I grew up in the Bay Area, California.

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So I've been carrying weight. for most of my

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adult life i didn't know there was something

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called rucking until maybe i don't know four

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or five years ago i would just call it you know

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going for a heavy hike or going out with my heavy

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pack or when i was firefighting we would do pt

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hikes is what we called it so okay rucking it's

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been a part of my life like i said most of my

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adult life but i it's something i've leaned into

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more and probably the last like i said maybe

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four to six years particularly for bow hunting

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I'm not here in Colorado now. Archery elk hunting

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is like my new favorite thing in the world. And

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that's something that involves carrying a heavy

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pack for long distances up and down steep terrain.

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So it's something that's just kind of become

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a part of my life. Oh yeah, no, absolutely. And

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like, so are you going on like intentional fitness

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rucks or are you just going out in the back country

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with a heavy pack and kind of killing two birds

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with one stone, getting a workout at the same

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time? Yeah, so it started early on. My wife likes

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this story. On one of our first dates, we went

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for a hike and I put like a 15 -pound dumbbell

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in my backpack. And that was like a very early

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ruck. Yeah. But to answer your question specifically,

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yeah, I ruck at least once or twice a week. A

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buddy and I meet up early in the morning and

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go out on the trails here, rain or snow, hot

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or cold. And I do intentionally ruck specifically

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all the time, as well as weight train, run. I

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do a lot of rock climbing as well. So I'm very

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much in the kind of Colorado, I don't know what

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you would call like mountain athlete scene, I

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guess, but rucking is very much an integral part

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of that. In addition to just going out on backpacking

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trips, things like that. Sure. Yeah. I've been

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seeing a lot of people posting videos of going

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on rucks and, you know, snow and ice conditions.

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And I have some significant FOMO cause it just

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looks awesome. And it's 80. 81 degrees here right

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now so nowhere near snow and we don't get a lot

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of snow down here in louisiana last year was

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kind of a one -off we got like six to eight inches

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over a span of two one and a half two days something

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like that so i have no experience i have very

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little experience walking on snow put it that

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way i've been skiing about a dozen times and

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i'm a bona fide jerry at that so like maneuvering

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in ice or snow is not my forte but i'm curious

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like do you remember your first like heavy heavy

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hike in the snow or rock in the snow? I think

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back to, it was probably some backpacking trips

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early on where we were out. I was a firefighter

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in Montana and we went out early season, you

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know, June there, you can still get significant

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snow. Like I've skied the mountain or snowboard

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of the mountain. It snowed like 11 inches late

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June. So I've definitely been backpacking out

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there early season in the snow. But as far as,

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Like rucking here again, like I probably rucker

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run more on the trails just outside of Boulder.

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There's awesome trails. I'm out there probably

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more in the winter than the summer. The summer

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I go up to the high country, but the snow does

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not shut things down here at all. Particularly

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in Colorado, we're high altitude, but it's a

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very dry climate. So the snow just isn't maybe

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as much as a factor as a wetter climate, maybe

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like Minnesota or something like that. But I

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don't think. I think if the cold is your reason

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for not going rocking or snow, I don't think

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that's really a reason not to, particularly with

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the biggest tip I would give. It's traction.

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I use, they're called micro spikes or what I

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use. Okay. There's a few other brands, but it's

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essentially like mini crampons that go over.

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I just go in my trail running shoes. So I use

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like ultra. which one's ultra lone peaks, I believe

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is the model, but they just go right over shoes.

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You wear, I wear not even that warm of socks,

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just kind of a standard wool, like darn tough

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sock. And you're good to go. Particularly, you

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know, we're going up and down Hills. You don't

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need that much gear wise. Maybe I wear joggers

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and like a wool base layer, maybe a beanie, but

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yeah, it should not be an obstacle. I wanted

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to ask you about that. So it's like, yeah, you're

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walking on ice or snow. It's kind of unstable

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footing. How does that change? Like mechanically

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speaking, what changes first when you put weight

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on your pack and you start walking on snow and

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ice? I mean, I don't really think it's that different.

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The only thing might be your stride may shorten

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a little bit. And the fact that you're wearing

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thicker clothes, maybe you have just more weight

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on you in general might slow you down a little

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bit. But I don't. think there's anything that

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really impacts like your mechanics unless you're

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in like deep snow. So this isn't rucking for

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fitness. This is just me out in the mountains.

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September, it snowed almost a foot when I was

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out archery hunting. So I'm essentially rucking

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and, you know, shin high snow. So that definitely

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changes things, particularly like each step is

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a lot higher. So you're just having to use your

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hip flexors a lot more, but. Again, it's when

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I'm out here just on the trails, there's not

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a huge change in mechanics. Gotcha. Yeah, that

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makes sense. But in terms of like load, pace

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and distance, what changes first would you say

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when you're going out for like a fitness ruck

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and you're going out in snow? Because I would

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imagine you may not want to carry the same amount

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of weight on your back unless you're super confident

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in your footing. Maybe would you adjust your

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weight? I don't. To me, it's this is my personal

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experience here because, again, Colorado. It

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gets cold, it snows, but it's just, it's such

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a dry climate. It's not the same as, you know,

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maybe if you're up in, so I'm just outside of

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Boulder. So we're at just under 6 ,000 feet.

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The trails here go up to just under nine. But

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if you're up in the high country, you're starting

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at like 10, 10 ,000 feet going up to 12. So that's

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just a whole different scenario. But where I'm

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at, nothing really changes. I'm basically, I'm

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wearing, you know, maybe joggers and a wool long

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sleeve top and micro spikes on my shoes. maybe

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not even yeah and then the weight doesn't change

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i might slow down a little bit just due to the

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nature of you know maybe there's like the friction

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between my shoe and the snow is not quite as

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good or i can't go uphill quite as fast but again

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i wouldn't say it's that different yeah interesting

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is it someone had described rucking in the snow

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comparable to rucking in sand i guess would you

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find that comparable or not at all I mean, again,

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our snows here are so dry. If it's fresh, dry

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snow, I barely notice it. Again, I think it just

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depends. Our trails get pounded. There's so many

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people out here just running all the time, essentially,

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or hiking or whatever, that even after a pretty

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significant snowfall, the trails get packed down

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quite quickly. So that's one of the benefits

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of being in this particular area. I will say,

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like... and this is where i think the traction

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plays a huge is a big factor is so it'll snow

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it'll freeze thaw so you get that real undulating

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uneven surface that's probably the biggest factor

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here actually where it goes from smooth to kind

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of like you know imagine if the surface of like

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a choppy lake froze so it's just this very uneven

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catch it drain that's probably the sketchiest

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for me where if i'm not wearing traction like

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spikes I've definitely fallen a few times. I

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think, I think that's just the one thing with

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rucking and just real areas that have real winter,

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like ice and snow is the top heaviness can definitely

00:10:56.870 --> 00:11:00.190
break you quickly. If you're not careful in the

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sense of you have all this load on top, you slip

00:11:03.269 --> 00:11:05.049
getting out of your car or whatever, you've got

00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:07.370
this weight on. It's just, you put your arm out

00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:09.129
to catch yourself. That I think is the biggest

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thing I would, I guess, caution people for. I

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.019
can see that. And you called them micro spikes.

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Is that what you said? So there's a brand, I'm

00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:19.600
pretty sure they're called micro spikes. Gotcha.

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And there's a few others, but real, the only

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difference is some of them have like longer spikes.

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Some of them have shorter. I find I use the shorter

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ones generally, but cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm

00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:39.220
not familiar with that. I know like snowshoes.

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I don't know. I'm trying to think like I ran

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track in high school. So I'm thinking like I

00:11:42.620 --> 00:11:44.559
had spikes. I mean, they're similar to that size,

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but you just strap on to the bottom of whatever

00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:49.100
boot or shoe you're wearing. And then, yeah,

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.700
the chains for your shoes. Gotcha. Cool. Now

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let's talk about like, like thermoregulation

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and sweat. So I guess it's kind of like anything

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with exercise. Like I would imagine in Colorado,

00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:03.039
you're going on these like excursions or these

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rucks and just wearing layers and you just kind

00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.039
of shed them as you go. Is there like a go -to

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like jacket slash thermal system that you follow?

00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:15.519
Like what works best for you? I've found that

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you need a lot less than you think. My general

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rule of thumb is start – if you're starting out

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cold, you're probably doing it right. If you're

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warm when you start, you're probably going to

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sweat through very shortly. So for me, it's just

00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.820
– and this is like probably down to maybe like

00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:37.720
single digits. So maybe 5 degrees, 10 degrees

00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:42.559
-ish up to maybe low 30s, high 30s. So it's –

00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:45.019
I just wear joggers, like Viore joggers. Nothing

00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.710
fancy. I wear wool. Darn tough socks, just kind

00:12:48.710 --> 00:12:52.190
of their standard hiking socks on the top. I'll

00:12:52.190 --> 00:12:57.289
wear a wool base layer. I'll wear a buff for

00:12:57.289 --> 00:13:02.509
like a neck gaiter, maybe a beanie, but oftentimes

00:13:02.509 --> 00:13:05.649
just like a hat, like a baseball hat and gloves.

00:13:06.009 --> 00:13:08.029
And that's it. And the thing to remember too,

00:13:08.070 --> 00:13:12.129
is your pack, your ruck. That's a lot of insulation

00:13:12.129 --> 00:13:14.690
that I always forget about. So that actually

00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:17.740
keeps you quite warm. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can imagine.

00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:20.019
I mean, yeah, it's been rucking down here in

00:13:20.019 --> 00:13:23.700
Louisiana and like 90 degree weather. You take

00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.159
the pack off. It's like stuck to you with all

00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:27.860
this wet that you have. Oh, for sure. I would

00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:29.799
imagine it kind of works to your benefit when

00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.559
it's cold. It kind of goes the opposite way.

00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:34.659
What about like decision making under environmental

00:13:34.659 --> 00:13:37.259
stress? Like how does the cold and fatigue start

00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:39.360
to affect decision making when you're when you're

00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.460
starting to, I don't know, get fatigued and while

00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:44.779
you're rucking or on a backcountry excursion?

00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:52.830
Right. I think my experience is less, my experience

00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:56.549
is less like I would say fitness rucks and more

00:13:56.549 --> 00:14:01.049
probably hunting's the best example, but you

00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:04.929
just, I just get lazy. It's like, you know, you've

00:14:04.929 --> 00:14:06.850
been out for multiple days. You're looking at

00:14:06.850 --> 00:14:10.210
the next ridge like, oh man, I don't want to

00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:13.750
go up and over that. Yeah. And I'll notice too.

00:14:14.590 --> 00:14:16.570
My reaction time will slow down a little bit.

00:14:16.570 --> 00:14:18.629
So I'll just be a little clumsier, particularly

00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:20.830
going downhill. I think downhill is actually

00:14:20.830 --> 00:14:24.090
harder than going uphill in the sense of it's

00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:26.750
that repeated eccentric load on your muscle where

00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:28.909
your muscles lengthening under tension, essentially.

00:14:30.110 --> 00:14:32.710
I get way more sore from that than going uphill.

00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:37.990
For me, what I'm thinking is like, so if I rock

00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:41.250
at like 100 degree weather and like 100, you

00:14:41.250 --> 00:14:44.039
know. percent humidity outside it's like immediately

00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.659
tough so it's just like oh wow this is just a

00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:49.220
hard already and it just goes down fast and i

00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:51.059
was thinking maybe just wrecking in the cold

00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:52.539
you start out like super comfortable and then

00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:55.600
it's just like a gradual burn as opposed to just

00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.639
like boom it's already like really difficult

00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.879
i guess gotta get to a point i think the thing

00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:04.019
with the cold is it actually motivates you to

00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:07.100
keep going right because you kind of find this

00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:10.779
equilibrium where your body gets warmed up you

00:15:10.779 --> 00:15:12.639
kind of figure out your layering system and so

00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.779
you're not really sweating a ton you find this

00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:17.379
perfect example but as soon as you stop you get

00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:21.220
cold so there's almost an extra motivation in

00:15:21.220 --> 00:15:23.460
the cold to keep moving versus when it's hot

00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:26.620
it's like you can't escape the heat you know

00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:29.559
more with dan in just a moment including the

00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.919
thinking behind how he designed the wild gem

00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:33.940
rucks but i want to take a quick break to say

00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:36.080
thanks for listening to the podcast Please text

00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:37.960
this episode with a fellow rucker that might

00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:39.980
find it interesting or a friend that could benefit

00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:42.039
from rucking. Sharing this episode would help

00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.000
the show grow and help more people improve their

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.059
health and lives. Okay, back to it. So let's

00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:50.149
talk about rucksack design. You're the founder

00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:53.129
of Wild Gem. You have, I'm guessing, extensive

00:15:53.129 --> 00:15:56.470
amounts of research put into your packs. I want

00:15:56.470 --> 00:15:59.450
to kind of start out at base layer here. How

00:15:59.450 --> 00:16:02.590
does shifting weight affect balance and energy

00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:06.529
use during unstable conditions? I'm going to

00:16:06.529 --> 00:16:10.070
answer slightly roundabout way, but my intention

00:16:10.070 --> 00:16:13.669
with the design was to make something really

00:16:13.669 --> 00:16:18.360
comfortable. And what my issue was is... before

00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.340
we launched our wild gym rucks, I'd go out to

00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:24.399
train for like archery season. I'd go, I would,

00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:27.919
I had literally a 50 pound like ballast sack

00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.879
for like wakeboard boats. I'd put that in my,

00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.419
just backpacking Mike, my Osprey backpacking

00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.279
pack. And the problem was those packs are designed

00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:39.259
to be filled up with volume. So you throw this

00:16:39.259 --> 00:16:41.580
dense weight. It just, it essentially collapses

00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.100
the whole pack on itself. Same thing with you

00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.240
throw a cast iron plate. Like, most backpacks

00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.840
are meant to have the volume filled up. Like

00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.240
that's how they function best. When you put dense

00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.620
weight in these things, they just essentially,

00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:57.519
like I said, collapse on themselves. And what

00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:01.139
I saw was hunting packs, I thought did the best

00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:04.980
job of doing that or at least avoiding that,

00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:07.039
right? Because most hunting packs, they have

00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.079
this rigid frame. If you are packing out meat,

00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.180
you're essentially attaching that quarter in

00:17:13.180 --> 00:17:16.250
the same way. You do like a cast iron plate now

00:17:16.250 --> 00:17:18.130
in the ruck. It's high and tight on your back.

00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.430
Instead of the weight being far away, like if

00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:23.269
you put it on the outside of your pack, it would

00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:26.210
pull you backwards. Just the leverage of it,

00:17:26.250 --> 00:17:29.710
right? So the closer it stays to your body, the

00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:32.569
less energy it takes. I have seen research as

00:17:32.569 --> 00:17:36.190
well where if you compare like a weighted vest

00:17:36.190 --> 00:17:40.829
to a ruck, ruck actually has a higher energy

00:17:40.829 --> 00:17:43.390
burn due to the weight. basically pulling you

00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:45.309
back slightly so you're all you're kind of having

00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:47.750
to engage a little more particularly your abdominals

00:17:47.750 --> 00:17:49.950
essentially i kind of have to pull your torso

00:17:49.950 --> 00:17:55.250
more upright but again the design was meant to

00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:58.150
allow you to one keep the weight as close to

00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:00.349
your body as possible so that it would be comfortable

00:18:00.349 --> 00:18:03.549
and then to disperse the weight over as much

00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:06.329
surface area as possible so what i noticed is

00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:09.539
when i was using like i had a trail running vest

00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:12.200
i literally put a 30 pound cast iron plate into

00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.859
and it just crushed my traps like there's just

00:18:14.859 --> 00:18:17.920
it was so uncomfortable after yeah that i'm surprised

00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.740
it actually held the 30 pounds yeah yeah yeah

00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:23.960
you'd be surprised like this so the stitching

00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:28.839
is quite strong but so i was doing that and i

00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.880
just essentially our first design so our everyday

00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:35.130
ruck That design is a hybrid between a hunting

00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.589
pack and a trail running vest. So it has, the

00:18:37.589 --> 00:18:40.710
trail running vest is surface area. So it's spreading

00:18:40.710 --> 00:18:42.890
the weight over as much, there's as much surface

00:18:42.890 --> 00:18:45.710
area as possible. And it essentially kind of

00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:47.990
hugs your torso from the front and the back.

00:18:48.690 --> 00:18:53.250
And then the rigid frame keeps it tight and it

00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:55.349
keeps the pack from collapsing on itself. So

00:18:55.349 --> 00:18:57.710
there's a contoured frame. It's not straight

00:18:57.710 --> 00:19:00.450
vertical. It has like, as it goes up toward your...

00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.039
as it goes up your back into your thoracic it

00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.960
kind of curves over so it keeps the weight close

00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.720
and again that's to prevent that leverage where

00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.920
essentially the farther you get away from your

00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:14.680
back each millimeter is just going to add more

00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:20.940
leverage and then the new feather ruck that is

00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.819
even a step further where we still have that

00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:25.619
kind of vest inspired design but we have the

00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:28.140
built -in hip belt now so you've got even more

00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.750
weight distribution And it hugs just, it has

00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:34.410
a little more flex to it. So it just contours

00:19:34.410 --> 00:19:36.990
to you so well. And it's just very comfortable.

00:19:37.289 --> 00:19:40.630
Does the everyday ruck not have a hip belt? Good

00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:43.049
question. It has a removable hip belt. Gotcha.

00:19:43.109 --> 00:19:46.130
Okay. But the feather rucks like fixed. Yeah,

00:19:46.210 --> 00:19:48.309
it's built in. And the main other difference

00:19:48.309 --> 00:19:50.950
is the feather has, you can adjust the torso

00:19:50.950 --> 00:19:54.150
length. So that's very important, right? Because

00:19:54.150 --> 00:19:58.599
if you were different heights. You need to be

00:19:58.599 --> 00:19:59.960
able to adjust that torso length to actually

00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:01.640
get the weight off your shoulders and onto your

00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.079
hips. So feather ruck has adjustable torso. Everyday

00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:07.380
ruck has, there's two sizes, but those are not

00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:09.539
adjustable. That was actually one of the first

00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:12.079
things that I had realized when I bought like

00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.460
a tactical bag to start rucking and I actually,

00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.079
I still use it. But as I was progressing, you

00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.940
know, I started out, I started out just walking,

00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:21.960
but then as I started throwing weight in the

00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:25.819
backpack, I guess I got up to, you know, 20 and

00:20:25.819 --> 00:20:28.759
then 30 and once i hit 45 i was like you know

00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:30.799
what i think it's time to start throwing on a

00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.220
belt so they had the manufacturer had one that

00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:34.740
you can add to it i'm like this is not doing

00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:39.420
anything i had it like way above where it should

00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:42.019
be on top of your hips and i was like well how

00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:44.059
can i adjust this and the only way to do it is

00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:47.579
to loosen up the strap so it's actually not high

00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:50.519
and tight anymore it's like low and loose and

00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.460
now it's like where it needs to be so i'm in

00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:54.869
this in between like do i high and tight or just

00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:57.009
like low and like potentially hurt my back just

00:20:57.009 --> 00:20:59.549
so i can pick it on my hips so i threw that i

00:20:59.549 --> 00:21:02.069
threw them away i'm like these are useless so

00:21:02.069 --> 00:21:04.849
the fact that you can adjust like how yeah and

00:21:04.849 --> 00:21:07.849
also my torso is a lot longer than like some

00:21:07.849 --> 00:21:09.529
of my friends and like we're the same height

00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:12.450
i'm just like oh what is yours yours fits like

00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:15.089
this is not working for me so yeah the fact that

00:21:15.089 --> 00:21:17.109
you can adjust yours i think that's yeah that

00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:21.009
sounds crazy comfortable or just like to provide

00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:23.930
that option to to you know tighten it here loosen

00:21:23.930 --> 00:21:27.309
it here or vice versa that's pretty good yeah

00:21:27.309 --> 00:21:32.410
that's well because like for me i it's okay i

00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:34.069
want to be comfortable being uncomfortable like

00:21:34.069 --> 00:21:36.069
i'm gonna ruck harder i'm gonna ruck farther

00:21:36.069 --> 00:21:39.250
i'm gonna ruck faster if my traps aren't cramping

00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:42.809
you know and So that was the impetus really with

00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:46.490
our designs. And I will say though, you know,

00:21:46.630 --> 00:21:50.609
I think there's like a certain threshold you

00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:52.630
cross where if you want to rock with a hundred

00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:55.390
pounds, it's going to be, it's always going to

00:21:55.390 --> 00:21:57.589
be uncomfortable. You know, you kind of cross

00:21:57.589 --> 00:22:01.009
this threshold where it's just, you can't really

00:22:01.009 --> 00:22:03.170
make that comfortable, but you can at least make

00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:06.799
it. less painful well i'll say this i've met

00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.619
one person that's wrecked with 100 pounds kind

00:22:08.619 --> 00:22:10.359
of routinely mike smith actually he was on the

00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.700
podcast a couple episodes ago but anyway he made

00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:16.799
his own he took like an everly stock frame and

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.859
like had it coming up kind of over the back of

00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:22.779
his head it was like so high but it looked looked

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:24.660
like it worked for him it was he said it was

00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:26.220
pretty comfortable too but like i feel like yeah

00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:27.619
if you go that high you may have to consider

00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:30.859
like a custom build or something like that the

00:22:30.859 --> 00:22:34.259
design i've actually been working on that I just

00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:36.119
don't know how many people, the problem is what's

00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.180
the viable market, right? Like how many people

00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:39.779
actually want to ruck with a hundred pounds?

00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:43.039
I don't know if it's worth, it'd be, I would

00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:45.140
like it. Like I would like something that's better,

00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:49.019
but yeah, the hundo ruck. We'll see. We'll see.

00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.059
I like that name. Comment, send us a note. If

00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:53.339
you're listening to this, let us know what you

00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:55.680
think. I like that name, but I'm still like,

00:22:55.779 --> 00:22:58.779
would it, what would the design be? Just. It'd

00:22:58.779 --> 00:23:01.099
be similar to the feather, but it'd have a much

00:23:01.099 --> 00:23:06.380
more rigid. frame and our pockets so we make

00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:09.599
our plates are they're about the size of a textbook

00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.599
so they're like nine by twelve roughly okay maybe

00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:14.440
like eight and three quarters by a little bit

00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.599
and a half something like that okay gotcha yeah

00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:20.079
so like i'm curious when you were putting when

00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.210
you were designing the everyday and then the

00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:25.029
feather rock are these your designs or did you

00:23:25.029 --> 00:23:27.069
hire like a team to come in and look at like

00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:29.529
what ergonomically like what's the most optimal

00:23:29.529 --> 00:23:33.250
positioning or you know shapes to contour the

00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:37.849
body i designed them all myself and it was just

00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:42.329
trial and error it was again like i've i think

00:23:42.329 --> 00:23:45.069
i had this unique experience where i've been

00:23:45.069 --> 00:23:48.470
my job right for several years was essentially

00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:51.920
walking around with a heavy pack most days i

00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.319
just have so much experience with this type of

00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:58.059
thing and i think it would i think kind of the

00:23:58.059 --> 00:24:01.140
maybe x factor was the hunting pack with the

00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:04.140
trail running pack and seeing i just it was one

00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.539
of those things where i don't know really where

00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:07.880
it came from i just had a thought like huh what

00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:10.240
if we kind of combine those two concepts which

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.559
are very i guess you could almost think of them

00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:17.170
as polar opposites but they had they each had

00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:19.210
these own features. They each had their own features

00:24:19.210 --> 00:24:21.509
that I thought would kind of the sum of the parts

00:24:21.509 --> 00:24:24.410
would be greater or excuse me. The sum is greater

00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:28.490
than the individual parts. So sure. That was

00:24:28.490 --> 00:24:31.250
really, that was the hypothesis. And then it

00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:35.109
was working with our manufacturer and just getting

00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:37.170
that. I'll never forget getting the first prototype

00:24:37.170 --> 00:24:40.549
putting on. It's like, Oh yeah, this isn't it,

00:24:40.589 --> 00:24:42.250
but it's going to work. You know what I mean?

00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:45.099
Like you get that first. get that wedge in there

00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:46.640
just a little bit, you know, it's going to work.

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:48.880
And it was just iterating on that first design.

00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:53.599
And now we've done with the everyday we've done,

00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.920
I think at least three or four design updates

00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.579
since we launched the original. And then the

00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:03.440
feather, I have a new prototype here that I'm

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.839
working on that I'm really excited about. So

00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.700
cool. No, I don't have an exact launch date for

00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:11.339
that, but yeah, I think with the beauty with

00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.640
cut and sew is it's. relatively easy to prototype

00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:17.920
you don't need tooling like molds so it's relatively

00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.700
easy to prototype and we have an awesome manufacturing

00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:24.000
partner that's that helps a ton with that so

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.920
cool yeah it's a fun process awesome with the

00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.240
feather rock and the everyday rock do you have

00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.740
to can you purchase like any old cast iron rock

00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:36.819
plate and will you fit in those rucksacks or

00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:41.990
do you have to buy a wild gem so most So like

00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:44.029
GORUX plates will fit in ours. They're standard

00:25:44.029 --> 00:25:49.390
plates. They're roughly the same size. Gotcha.

00:25:49.529 --> 00:25:54.630
And the everyday, that will hold some other plates

00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:57.869
as well, like the Yes For All. Okay, yeah. But

00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:00.829
there's a caveat, and let me be very clear. So

00:26:00.829 --> 00:26:03.829
the everyday has two plate pockets. The outer

00:26:03.829 --> 00:26:06.549
plate pocket has a little bit of elasticity.

00:26:07.769 --> 00:26:09.849
okay it will hold a bigger plate and actually

00:26:09.849 --> 00:26:13.089
what's cool about the everyday is it's got actually

00:26:13.089 --> 00:26:18.309
let me show you yeah so there's two there's so

00:26:18.309 --> 00:26:21.630
this is like a sandbag cool yeah but this is

00:26:21.630 --> 00:26:24.150
strap there's straps that hold it in so you can

00:26:24.150 --> 00:26:29.029
strap across and hold anything right does that

00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:30.950
make sense yeah yeah i don't have a titan but

00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:35.940
and it's got this shelf here cool so I should

00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:37.880
have made this look sexier, but like, I thought

00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.779
like people like we'll put like cat kitty litter,

00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:43.099
like dog food or their groceries and use that.

00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:46.140
So that's kind of fun. That is cool. Yeah. So

00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:48.599
I was like, what was it? It was, Oh, it was like

00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:50.599
Thanksgiving talking about just like stuffing

00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.180
things. And so the backpack to rock with not

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:55.119
necessarily, but people like. stuff in like cans

00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.259
and stuff to bring to like their their local

00:26:57.259 --> 00:26:59.559
food pantry it's like man that's a great idea

00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:01.539
like i should have done that this year that's

00:27:01.539 --> 00:27:03.160
gonna be oh that's a good idea i like that yeah

00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.079
i'll do that next year but it's cool that you

00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:06.519
have the straps on the inside because there's

00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.059
a lot of like tactical bags that have those straps

00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:09.460
but they're on the outside and so it's like kind

00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:11.740
of hard to get like a good snug snug fit when

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:13.359
you have something that's oblong or like not

00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.680
necessarily like you know a square rectangular

00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.220
cute shape but no that's really cool hex hex

00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:21.819
size like the hex style dumbbells you know i'm

00:27:21.819 --> 00:27:24.329
talking about yep those will fit actually really

00:27:24.329 --> 00:27:26.269
well so you can put them vertically and then

00:27:26.269 --> 00:27:28.390
strap them in perfect because they're sitting

00:27:28.390 --> 00:27:30.730
on that shelf it disperses the weight pretty

00:27:30.730 --> 00:27:33.210
well so yeah it's really versatile on the and

00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:35.750
kind of load anything yeah and it sounds like

00:27:35.750 --> 00:27:37.890
it i mean if you can load kitty litter in there

00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:41.230
yeah i actually carried my wife i rucked my wife

00:27:41.230 --> 00:27:44.630
i had my wife sit in there no way yeah yeah that's

00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:47.839
awesome yeah So, so what's next? You said that

00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:49.559
you have potentially another prototype coming

00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:51.220
out for the feather rock. What are, what's the,

00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:53.619
what else is on the horizon for wild gem? Yeah,

00:27:53.619 --> 00:27:59.059
I think there's, I, my, my favorite, it's funny.

00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.220
I'm always using the prototypes cause I'm, I

00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:04.900
don't know if this is just me, but I feel like

00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:06.400
a lot of founders have this where you're never

00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.480
satisfied. You always want to make things better.

00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.799
You see the flaws, right? Like I see every little

00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:17.279
crack. Oh man, this could be better. So my prototypes

00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.980
are always my favorite rucks because they're

00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:22.160
always like that one step in the right direction,

00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.819
at least for my opinion. So my favorite ruck

00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:27.240
right now is essentially would be the Feather

00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:31.660
Ruck 2 .0. That seems to be just from like a

00:28:31.660 --> 00:28:35.660
business standpoint where we'll focus more. People

00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:37.859
love the everyday. I use it a lot, actually.

00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:40.799
I actually use it as my travel. backpack so when

00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.119
i go or trash i don't know why i keep saying

00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.940
backpack this is the rucker's edge man my travel

00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:49.940
ruck is the everyday ruck sure and i love it

00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:53.539
for travel it fits under the airplane seat is

00:28:53.539 --> 00:28:55.920
for carry -on so it's no problem there and it

00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:01.720
just my my it's heavy so it carries weight great

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.440
yeah i mean it was at kayla citadino had sent

00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:08.599
a message in to the podcast a while back and

00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:12.220
she said it's most comfortable cool yeah colorado

00:29:12.220 --> 00:29:14.720
colorado shout out dan i don't know if you want

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:16.539
to add anything or if you had something specific

00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:18.119
you wanted to say to the audience or anything

00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.500
like that yeah no i mean i'm happy to engage

00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:24.680
with folks that want to reach out i'm dan my

00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.200
my social handles pretty much all around her

00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:31.220
it's well so it's at wild gym co okay then you

00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:33.660
can reach out to me personally it's wild dan

00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:37.799
vincent That's on pretty much all the socials

00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.700
as well. I'm on X. I think my X is just Dan Vincent

00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:44.619
or Dan R. Vincent. And then on the side, I do

00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:46.700
some consulting for anyone that's doing like

00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:48.500
e -commerce, things like that. So if there's

00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:50.440
anyone that's looking to start a brand or anything

00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.619
like that, I'm happy to help. Cool. And yeah,

00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:56.779
stoked to engage. Awesome. Well, Dan, thanks

00:29:56.779 --> 00:29:58.279
again. Really appreciate you joining me here

00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:00.700
on the Record Search Podcast. And good luck to

00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:02.220
you with the rest of your endeavors with Wild

00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:03.900
Gem, man. Thanks again. Yeah, thanks, Spencer.

00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:06.630
Appreciate you. All right, that wraps up my conversation

00:30:06.630 --> 00:30:08.910
with Dan Vinson. You can connect with him on

00:30:08.910 --> 00:30:12.329
social media at wilddanvinson and wildjimco.

00:30:12.670 --> 00:30:14.309
I'll drop the links to both of those in the show

00:30:14.309 --> 00:30:16.430
notes. If you want to reach out to me, head on

00:30:16.430 --> 00:30:18.809
over to theruckersedge .com or on Instagram at

00:30:18.809 --> 00:30:21.329
theruckersedgepod. If you enjoyed today's episode,

00:30:21.470 --> 00:30:23.250
make sure to follow or subscribe to the show

00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:25.369
in your favorite podcast app so you're notified

00:30:25.369 --> 00:30:27.750
of new episodes. And you're not going to want

00:30:27.750 --> 00:30:30.049
to miss next week's episode. I sit down and have

00:30:30.049 --> 00:30:32.940
a chat with John A. Daly. A Marine and author

00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:35.519
of Tough Rugged Bastards, he shares his wisdom

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.059
from a lifetime of rucking and thoroughly enjoyed

00:30:38.059 --> 00:30:40.960
that conversation. I think he will too. Okay,

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.599
that's it for today. Thanks again for listening

00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.339
to this episode of The Rucker's Edge.