Rucking Nutrition 101: Fueling Before and During Your Miles with Kyle Kamp (Part 1)

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Have you ever started a ruck feeling great only

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to realize halfway through that your energy is

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dropping, your legs feel heavy, or your brain

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starts checking out? Yeah, most people assume

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that means they need a better pre -ruck meal.

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But today's guest is here to tell you that's

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not the whole story. This is part one of two

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from my conversation with registered dietitian

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Kyle Kamp. Kyle is the owner of Valley to Peak

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Nutrition, an online nutrition coaching service

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for outdoor enthusiasts and the host of the super

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informative Valley to Peak Nutrition podcast.

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During our conversation, Kyle breaks down the

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fundamentals of fueling for rucking, but without

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the complicated science, conflicting advice,

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or overhyped supplement talk. In this episode,

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you're going to learn why most ruckers are focused

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on the wrong meal, the truth about carb loading,

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how caffeine really affects your performance,

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and exactly when you do or do not need to fuel

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during your miles. You're listening to the Rutgers

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Edge podcast, a show all about rucking that is

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designed to help you improve your rucking routine,

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lose weight and ultimately gain your strength

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and energy back. Each episode dives into the

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science, stories and strategies behind rucking.

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You'll learn from top ruckers, coaches, nutrition

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experts and performance specialists who break

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down what it takes to train smarter, recover

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faster and stay ready for the next challenge.

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So whether you're new to rucking or an experienced

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rucker that's already logged hundreds of miles,

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this is the show for you. I'm your host, Spencer.

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Thanks so much for listening today. Please enjoy

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part one of my conversation with Kyle Kamp. Kyle,

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thanks so much for joining me today on the Rutgers

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Edge podcast. It's really good to have you here.

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Yeah, it's awesome to be here. I appreciate you

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inviting me, Spencer. I'm excited. Looking forward

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to it. Absolutely. Same here. I'm looking forward

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to getting some of the valuable information that

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you have for us with your extensive background

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being a registered dietitian. And I have a lot

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of questions that I've had over the years, and

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they've also transitioned or translated to me

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rucking that I'm hoping that you can clarify

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for myself and the audience. But I kind of want

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to start out with. how I should be preparing

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my body for a ruck. Let's just say maybe the

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day before or right before a ruck. I know that

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balancing protein, fats, and carbs is pretty

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essential or key. What does that balance look

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like when you're preparing for a long ruck? I

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would take a step back and look even at a broader

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perspective of a person's overall nutrition.

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And I mean that in this sense, one meal prior

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to a rock is not going to have any impact on

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that performance for the most part. Now I'm going

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to come back to that statement here in a minute.

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Okay. If you are genuinely looking to make the

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most out of that rock, like let's not even talk

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about weight loss or body composition or anything

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of that nature. Let's just talk about energy

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in that rock. That is going to come in the meals

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preceding that rock by potentially days, right?

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So nutrition is largely driven by consistently

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doing something long enough to where you notice

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that impact. So for example, If a guy has an

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atrocious nutrition regimen, maybe he has none

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at all, gives no thought to it whatsoever, and

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then we have this conversation about, oh, how

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do I maximize the meal right beforehand? He will

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never feel the effects of that meal, even if

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it's quote -unquote optimal before the rock,

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because his nutrition preceding that is so...

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you know, let's, let's just use the word atrocious.

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Sure. So atrocious that, that, that meal is not

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going to have any impact on it whatsoever. So

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I think taking a step back from that in a broader

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sense and having people look at your overall

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nutrition level. So let's start there and then

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we'll kind of lead into this, this, this question

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that you're really asking about. What about right

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before? Sure. For the most part, like, as I use

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the word atrocious, what I mean is not even that

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you're eating quote unquote. what people would

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label as their typical quote unquote bad foods.

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There are three main macronutrients that we get

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what we feel from. So you have carbohydrates,

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which main job is to provide energy to the muscle.

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You have protein, which is the main job to try

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to recover, grow, or retain the muscle. And then

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you have dietary fat, which the main job there

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is to transport hormones and to have optimal

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health, transport nutrients, et cetera. So when

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I say atrocious nutrition, if you have a guy

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who is not having a mixture of those different

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nutrients, he is probably going to lack in one

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of those areas, be energy, be it muscle retention

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or growth, or be optimal health. So when you're

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talking about like general nutrition, you want

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to try to have a mix of those nutrients as a

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part of each meal throughout the course of the

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day so that you can get each of those benefits

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from said nutrients. Now, if a person's doing

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that, then you can... start to have that conversation

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about what should I eat right beforehand? And

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we would funnel this under the category of meal

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timing, right? So like, is there any benefit

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in trying to have something one hour before my

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RUC? And I know we're going to talk about some

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post -RUC nutrition, but as a part of that, do

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I need protein immediately after I get done with

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the RUC or I lose out from the benefit of that

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RUC? We would funnel all of those under the category

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of meal timing. okay and what we find is this

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if you have pretty good nutrition habits in your

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daily routine you really don't have to pay attention

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to or focus on pre -ruck nutrition you don't

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have to focus on this category of timing because

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our bodies are so great at being able to adapt

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based on what we've already had and what we need

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in the moment it can It is like a pendulum. It

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can switch and begin to tap into some of those

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nutrient stores to where you may not need anything

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before the rock. I definitely understood the

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fact that, yeah, you need to eat healthy all

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the time, not just right before. But I am curious.

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So for someone that does maintain somewhat of

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a pretty decent nutritional balance, what's the

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ideal timing before like a good breakfast before

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going out on a rock? Is it sort of like swimming,

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like you eat and you wait 30 minutes? Or is it

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more maybe have a small snack and then get going

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a few minutes later? It's going to depend on

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the composition of what you're eating. And here's

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what I mean by that. If you eat a mixed meal,

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if you eat a meal that is substantial and has

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a mix of the different macronutrients, carbohydrates,

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proteins, fats, and I'll give you an example

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of that here in a little bit. It's going to take

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longer for that meal to process than if you were

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to eat something light and predominantly only

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carbohydrate based, right? And so the process

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of a meal from the point in which you eat it

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to the point of where you get the nutrients from

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that meal to where it has an impact on your ruck,

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to where that meal is actually affecting whether

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or not you're able to get through your ruck strong

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or weak. is a period of time of hours. So you

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may not even be getting the benefits of that

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meal until you're back. So if you eat that meal

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and you go on a rock and it's a meal that takes

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a long time to break down, you're not even, probably

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not even getting the benefits of that until you

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are back home. An example of that would be like

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for breakfast, let's say it's a... bowl of oatmeal

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with some fruit and a couple of eggs you have

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a cut you have a you have a mixed composition

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there of proteins carbohydrates and fats whereas

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if you were to take something in like a piece

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of fruit or a box of raisins or even a handful

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of breakfast cereal or glass of juice or a handful

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of grapes those are all examples of straight

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carbohydrate and relatively easy to break down

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carbohydrate so now you go from a period of processing

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that could take hours down to potentially minutes

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and you don't have to wait and you are getting

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the effects of that nutrition on the rock so

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a lot of being able to answer that question of

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okay well what's a good you know what should

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we eat before rock the answer there really depends

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on well how long do you plan to have between

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consumption of that meal and the beginning time

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of your rock. If you have a while, maybe a good

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solid mixed composition breakfast is a good option.

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You have a long time to break that down. If you

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don't have that much time, then maybe now you're

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looking at something that is lighter, mainly

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carbohydrate and easy to break down. Okay. I

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see what you're saying. And when I was, I used

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to be a runner a couple of decades ago at this

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point, and I was always told to, to, to carbo

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load before, before your runs. And we would do

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a lot of pasta the night before, I guess, is

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that the theory that if you eat like a lot of

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carbs that, that much or that many amount of

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carbs beforehand, you kind of need enough time

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for your body to process it before, before your

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run. So you'd go heavy on a pasta meal the night

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before. Well, it's not so much about the pasta

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and the carbohydrates the night before and that

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needing a long time to break down as much as

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it is the total composition and the introduction

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of proteins and fats because protein and fat

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slow the digestion of carbohydrate, right? So

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now you go from a period of potentially minutes,

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like I said, to hours because it takes a while

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for... the gut to break those nutrients down

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so if you eat carbs with proteins and fats there's

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going to be a prolonged period of breakdown between

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consumption and actually an actual delivery of

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energy to that muscle but the like what you're

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talking about with runners in carb loading which

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is a phrase that a lot of people are familiar

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with especially in the running space and community

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that has to do with my comments earlier on your

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general meal habits. Because the theory there

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is that if you eat carbohydrates, a large portion

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of carbohydrates the evening before, while you're

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sleeping, your body is taking that carbohydrate

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and depositing it into the stores of your muscle.

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So that when you go to that race the following

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day and you begin depleting your current stores,

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there is a resource or a hub to now tap into

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that is full. right and so if you didn't do that

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and that hub was also dry now you're now what

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right and that's the wall that's the wall that

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people describe in running or rucking or any

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any type of performance pursuit that they hit

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is they they're they're depleted from energy

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either because they don't have good nutrition

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habits in general or they didn't you know quote

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carb load and carb loading like conventional

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conventional recommendations or historically

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we've always said, you know, you eat a big bowl

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of pasta the night before. And in all reality,

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a good carb load is the reduction in training

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met with an increase in carb intake over the

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period of several days. Okay. Right. So like

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one meal the night before is not going to make

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or break you. And I'll throw this in there too,

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just so people who are listening, don't get confused.

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You, you know, you do not need to carb load before

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a rock to make the most out of that rock. Most

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rocks, um, are not, are not that long, right?

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You don't have people out there rocking three,

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four or five hours. Now they will on a weekend

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event or an occasion or something like that.

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But most training rocks, most daily rocks that

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people are doing are not what we would throw

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into the category of an endurance event. Thanks

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for clearing that up for me. I was a little confused

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on that. Now that you've covered how to approach

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the different macros that we consume, what about

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these supplements, specifically caffeine? I love

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drinking coffee. I need coffee in the morning.

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Should we avoid caffeine before rucking? I don't

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think you need to avoid it. However, I am also

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not going to recommend it to the way that you

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will read most supplement companies pushing it

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because what we find in research is There is

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some data to suggest a significant increase in

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performance, whatever you describe that as, with

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an athlete who takes caffeine. Now, when you

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read that actual research, what you find is mostly

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a cognitive benefit. In other words, there's

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a perception of increased energy, so therefore

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the person can now push harder, right? And to

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me, depending on the intensity of a person's

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exercise, I don't love mixing things that already

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tax the heart more than what it's already being

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taxed in the physical sense. So if you take someone

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who is a sprinter in which the intensity is very

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high, if you go adding an additional aid that

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then makes that heart rate even higher, I don't

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love the tax on the heart in that example. Now,

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if you take a person who throws a 45 -pound rock

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on, and walks on flat ground and they're, you

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know, relatively familiar with doing so. It's

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not a new endeavor to them. They're probably

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not taxing the heart that bad. And so, but they

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also may not need caffeine. So, you know, I'm

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not going to say that you need to avoid it, but

00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:51.720
I'm also not in the camp that believes that it's

00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.480
a make or break type of supplement. Sure. And

00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.240
in the world of supplements, you know, that to

00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:02.279
me is the point in which you should you should

00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.179
you should look at and decide whether or not

00:14:04.179 --> 00:14:07.480
you want to take them and that is it with this

00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.080
supplement do i notice this significant change

00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.659
in my ability to do x y or z and if my answer

00:14:13.659 --> 00:14:17.220
to that is no then the the potential benefit

00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:20.759
that i was taking it for now becomes theory right

00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.019
and if i can't feel it and it's theory do i want

00:14:26.019 --> 00:14:30.500
to spend my money on that do i want to spend

00:14:30.500 --> 00:14:34.200
my time and brain power trying to remember to

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.080
take that in a certain cadence as recommended

00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.460
by the supplement company and you know you just

00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:41.360
don't find too many supplements where the answer

00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:43.779
to that is like oh yeah that that pain is worth

00:14:43.779 --> 00:14:46.700
doing so i'll do it yeah and i think i always

00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:48.500
had a misconception about what caffeine actually

00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:51.100
does i always thought caffeine gives you energy

00:14:51.100 --> 00:14:54.269
but correct me if i'm wrong recently found out

00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:55.889
that's not necessarily the case caffeine just

00:14:55.889 --> 00:14:57.950
prevents you from being tired does that sound

00:14:57.950 --> 00:15:00.769
accurate to you that's 100 accurate right so

00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:04.690
you caffeine does not that's a great that's a

00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:08.389
great separation of terms from you and to recognize

00:15:08.389 --> 00:15:11.549
that because caffeine does not provide you energy

00:15:11.549 --> 00:15:15.769
it can make you alert right and that's what you

00:15:15.769 --> 00:15:18.639
find in the research is you know people who take

00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.299
this they improve performance because they are

00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:23.240
more alert but the second thing you've got to

00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.620
look at in in that research too is the dose and

00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:30.120
the dose is so high that now you're now you're

00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.200
asking you know like the question a phrase that

00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.720
we use a lot with our our folks is optimal versus

00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.059
practical you know you've got all these optimal

00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:41.600
recommendations but those aren't often those

00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.220
are very rarely are those practical for a person

00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:47.960
to implement Right. And so, yeah, I suppose that

00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:50.500
you could take mega doses of caffeine and become

00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.779
more alert. But is that practical for you to

00:15:53.779 --> 00:15:56.200
be drinking, you know, the equivalent of five

00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.899
cups of coffee before a rock every single morning?

00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.340
Right. And, you know, is there a downside to

00:16:02.340 --> 00:16:04.000
that because you've got a history of cardiac

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.120
issues? Right. So now it's like, yeah, well,

00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.480
now all of the risks outweigh the benefits. So

00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.779
I don't know that it's a supplement for that

00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:15.220
person in that scenario. Gotcha. No, I'm going

00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:17.340
to keep drinking my coffee because at this point,

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.360
it's just it's more of a ritual than than anything

00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:22.019
on the weekends. I need coffee during the work

00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:24.620
week to keep me alert at my desk job. But when

00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:26.480
I'm when I'm up and moving around and excited

00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.480
about getting a workout and I don't I don't need

00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.840
that that extra aid that caffeine provides to

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.919
me during the work beat. But it's yeah, it's

00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:34.820
just part of my ritual in the morning. Okay,

00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:36.779
so now that we've talked pre -ruck nutrition,

00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:39.220
let's talk about mid -ruck, where maybe we're

00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:42.279
more than halfway or we are halfway into the

00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.820
ruck. What should we be eating or when should

00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.460
we be eating? Should we not wait till we feel

00:16:48.460 --> 00:16:51.240
like we need some energy or what are your thoughts

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.919
on that? Yeah, so the answer to that is going

00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.419
to come down to really two things. The total

00:16:57.419 --> 00:17:00.289
time that you plan to be on your feed. and the

00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:02.590
intensity in which you plan to be approaching

00:17:02.590 --> 00:17:05.890
the ruck with so for the for the timing portion

00:17:05.890 --> 00:17:08.829
of things you don't need anything if that ruck

00:17:08.829 --> 00:17:12.670
is not longer than 60 to 90 minutes right and

00:17:12.670 --> 00:17:15.190
even if you are even if even if you are finishing

00:17:15.190 --> 00:17:18.049
on the 60 and 90 minute mark you very likely

00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:21.950
do not need anything on that ruck and that goes

00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:25.329
back to my points earlier on we are assuming

00:17:25.329 --> 00:17:28.680
you pay decent attention to your nutrition through

00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.980
the week because again your body is going to

00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:33.420
tap into the resources that it already has and

00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.960
you don't need more than what than what's available

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.140
there whenever rocks or really any any type of

00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.240
physical training goes beyond or i'm sorry it

00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:47.240
goes under 60 to 90 minutes right now you have

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.440
to look at the other variable of intensity and

00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.420
this changes things a little bit and this way

00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:57.230
you can you can you can put a broad A broad statement

00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:00.029
over it that says this, the greater the intensity,

00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:03.049
the more that you are using fuel in that workout.

00:18:03.309 --> 00:18:05.869
And so now there is a greater need for replacement

00:18:05.869 --> 00:18:08.410
during that. And so if the intensity of that

00:18:08.410 --> 00:18:11.950
rock is high, you may now need something at 60

00:18:11.950 --> 00:18:13.990
minutes rather than waiting until minute 90.

00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:17.470
But if the intensity is relatively low, call

00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:20.690
it a scale, call it like a two on a scale of

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:23.200
one to five. in terms of difficulty with one

00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:26.640
being pretty low key and five being like, holy

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.380
smokes, I don't know how long I can do this for.

00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.500
So if you're at a one or a two, you may be able

00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:36.720
to go 90 to 100, 120 minutes with no fuel at

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.799
all because your body is not metabolizing the

00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.819
fuel that you've already got fast enough to justify

00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:46.859
needing more. And I would argue that you could

00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:49.640
take more, but you probably won't feel the effects

00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.200
of that. But let's assume that the intensity

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:54.440
is high. And let's assume that you're out for

00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.519
one of those big weekend three -hour johns. Now

00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.880
the goal becomes totals and timing. You want

00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:06.099
60 grams or about 250 calories worth of carbohydrates

00:19:06.099 --> 00:19:10.799
every 60 minutes on the 60 -minute mark until

00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.599
you stop. So that would be like at minute 60,

00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:18.759
minute 120, minute 180, so on and so forth. Now,

00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:20.940
there's some... there's some variation there.

00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:22.759
Like you could take it anywhere between 45 and

00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.819
60 minutes, but you don't, you definitely don't

00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:27.680
want to extend beyond 60 minutes. So if the intensity

00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.920
is high or the duration is long, you want fast

00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.980
acting carbohydrate about once every 45 to 60

00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.099
minutes from the point that you begin until the

00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:39.220
point that you end. But the cutoff there again

00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:41.460
is like 60 to 90 minutes. So if you're going

00:19:42.109 --> 00:19:43.450
you know, if your rocks less than 90 minutes,

00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:45.230
probably don't need anything. If you're venturing,

00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:47.670
you know, into these longer ones where you're

00:19:47.670 --> 00:19:51.029
planning on them going between two, three plus

00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.210
hours, then you're going to want to plan for

00:19:53.210 --> 00:19:55.569
that totals and timing, which again is about

00:19:55.569 --> 00:19:58.549
60 grams of carbs every 60 minutes. Or for people

00:19:58.549 --> 00:20:00.910
who find calorie conversions easier, that'd be

00:20:00.910 --> 00:20:03.490
about 250 or 300 calories worth of carbohydrate

00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:08.089
every hour or so until you finish. Fast acting

00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:10.369
carbohydrates. Is that basically straight up

00:20:10.369 --> 00:20:14.630
sugar? What are some examples? Okay. Yeah, it

00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:16.950
can be. I mean, you know, your average electrolyte

00:20:16.950 --> 00:20:20.910
drink, we've kind of grown synonymous with using

00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:26.190
gummy bears. You could use, you know, just about

00:20:26.190 --> 00:20:28.589
anything you want. You'll have people who now

00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:32.029
are, you know, for whatever personal reason,

00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:34.609
they don't like the idea of consuming sugar.

00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.559
they may want to consume something more quote

00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:39.940
-unquote natural so they could do dried fruit

00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:42.640
or they could do figs or they could do honey

00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.160
sticks or they could do maple syrup or they could

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.539
you know a variety of these different things

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:51.160
but the point is is that you want something that's

00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.880
going to be into the muscle pretty quick right

00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.460
you don't want that two and three hour delay

00:20:57.460 --> 00:20:59.839
like we talked about earlier you want something

00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.819
that's going to hit you within a handful of minutes

00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.880
because you have now exhausted the fuel reservoir.

00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.339
And if we don't refill that, you are on approaching

00:21:10.339 --> 00:21:13.619
the face of hitting the wall or bonking or whatever

00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:15.920
phrase people are familiar with. So you need

00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:17.940
something that's going to process fairly fast.

00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.000
I would say one of the greatest misconceptions

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.880
that exists here is that protein is that. Protein

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.440
gives you energy. Protein does not give you energy.

00:21:28.590 --> 00:21:31.630
Protein rebuilds and maintains muscle. It is

00:21:31.630 --> 00:21:34.609
not a nutrient that you want to give energy.

00:21:34.710 --> 00:21:37.789
Now, the body can make energy out of protein,

00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:40.930
but it most certainly is not its most preferred

00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:44.349
fuel source in an event where you're taxing the

00:21:44.349 --> 00:21:47.470
muscle a lot because as you are taxing the muscle,

00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:50.329
the body is pushing blood to that muscle for

00:21:50.329 --> 00:21:52.349
recovery. It is not giving it to the digestive

00:21:52.349 --> 00:21:55.410
system. So you want something that the stomach's

00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:57.930
going to be able to process relatively easy.

00:21:58.309 --> 00:22:01.569
And so that fast acting carbohydrate with whatever

00:22:01.569 --> 00:22:06.390
source you would prefer is a great way, a great

00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:09.369
way to do that. You have some pretty extensive

00:22:09.369 --> 00:22:12.470
knowledge hiking into the backcountry on some

00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:14.910
of your hunts. I'm curious, what's your go -to

00:22:14.910 --> 00:22:19.349
snack to keep you fueled? That's a great question.

00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:24.039
I have several. You know, if it's, if it's, if

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.640
it's hunting where you go between periods of

00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.079
intensity, climbing up to a ridge and periods

00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:31.279
of sitting and period, you know, just these like

00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.180
different, different levels, man, there is nothing

00:22:34.180 --> 00:22:36.200
better to me than your humble peanut butter and

00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:41.319
jelly sandwich. Okay. I love that. We do an event

00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.319
every year with some good friends of ours through

00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.440
a backpacking company called XO Mountain Gear.

00:22:47.779 --> 00:22:50.619
And that, that event is called a death hike.

00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.359
And the idea of the death hike and the heart

00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.039
behind it is that you, you know, you commit to

00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:59.099
doing something that kind of scares you on the

00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:02.160
rucking front. Right. And so that's ranged from,

00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:04.420
you know, we did a big back country trip through

00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:08.500
Alaska and 35 miles and like 36 hours or something.

00:23:08.619 --> 00:23:12.480
We've done Grand Canyon, uh, rim to rim to rim.

00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.000
We've done the Grand Canyon R5. We've done a

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:17.319
lot of different things on something like that,

00:23:17.380 --> 00:23:20.740
where you are pushing very, very hard. like a

00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:22.519
peanut butter and jelly has a fair amount of

00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:24.740
fat in it, has a fair amount of slow processing

00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:26.920
carbohydrates in it. So it doesn't sit as well

00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.700
with me on those. I might do something more of

00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:34.680
like a. an electrolyte powder that has carbs

00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:39.420
in it or i might do honey or i might do sour

00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.480
patch watermelon kids or i might do gummy bears

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.359
or i might do you know there's a variety of things

00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.380
like that or fruit if i you know if i if i can

00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:50.839
stomach it but you know that's one point to make

00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:55.440
is when you're you know for a lot of very good

00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:00.190
reasons there is a magnifying glass on all things

00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:03.670
sugar right now. And so even the mention of it

00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:05.910
can carry a negative connotation. And, you know,

00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:08.430
people will say like, how can you be a dietician

00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:11.490
and recommend sugar? Because in certain scenarios,

00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:13.930
and that is a very important takeaway for anyone

00:24:13.930 --> 00:24:17.789
who does listen to this, there are case use scenarios

00:24:17.789 --> 00:24:22.230
for every piece of nutrition and a case use for

00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:24.490
things that are easy for the gut to digest are

00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:27.609
when intensity. grows and so you know let's use

00:24:27.609 --> 00:24:31.069
these death hikes as an example my appetite goes

00:24:31.069 --> 00:24:34.089
into the gutter you're working so hard you're

00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.950
moving the whole time you're you know you've

00:24:36.950 --> 00:24:39.089
got a pack strapped around your hips so you're

00:24:39.089 --> 00:24:41.430
already cutting blood flow off to the gut you

00:24:41.430 --> 00:24:44.369
have all of these these variables stacking against

00:24:44.369 --> 00:24:47.509
you and you often feel like you want to throw

00:24:47.509 --> 00:24:50.569
up and so even the ability to get anything down

00:24:50.569 --> 00:24:53.589
because you're moving for you know 20 hours a

00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:56.599
day sometimes The ability to get anything down

00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:58.980
alone can be a feat. And about the only thing

00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:02.140
that I can get down to keep moving in those situations

00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:08.160
tend to be more high -carb, sugar -based things.

00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:12.279
On a daily basis, I don't eat any of that. But

00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.599
in that scenario, it's the only thing that I

00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.779
can eat to keep moving, right? And so that's

00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:21.660
a very important thing. And I'll put kind of

00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:25.910
an overarching – theme or mantra or banner or

00:25:25.910 --> 00:25:28.369
whatever over the top of this to say that if

00:25:28.369 --> 00:25:32.210
if anyone who hears this has a certain food that

00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:35.670
sits well with them and they violate all the

00:25:35.670 --> 00:25:38.009
principles that i'm talking about they should

00:25:38.009 --> 00:25:41.450
still keep eating it because the number one thing

00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:45.130
you should do is what works for you and what

00:25:45.130 --> 00:25:49.849
exists in the world of nutrition i mean for and

00:25:49.849 --> 00:25:53.630
and fits that category is as broad as the internet

00:25:53.630 --> 00:25:57.569
is search engines right it's like i mean there

00:25:57.569 --> 00:26:00.430
could be i could have 100 people in the room

00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:03.329
And you could have a hundred different responses

00:26:03.329 --> 00:26:06.849
on what sits well with them and what sits well

00:26:06.849 --> 00:26:09.390
with one guy. You'll have another guy down that

00:26:09.390 --> 00:26:12.130
line of a hundred say, oh, I throw up if I even

00:26:12.130 --> 00:26:14.190
look at that, but I normally like eating it at

00:26:14.190 --> 00:26:16.089
home. And you'll have another guy say like, oh,

00:26:16.170 --> 00:26:20.089
I'm allergic to that. So I'm giving general examples,

00:26:20.309 --> 00:26:24.289
but definitely I would advocate and encourage

00:26:24.289 --> 00:26:27.039
anyone. if you know something that works for

00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.799
you and it violates every principle that i'm

00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.740
saying that is exactly what you should keep eating

00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:32.440
because it works for you and at the end of the

00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:34.119
day that's all you're chasing you are chasing

00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:36.680
and trying to find what's going to work the best

00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.759
for you so that you can keep doing something

00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.900
that you love you know and and taking on whatever

00:26:40.900 --> 00:26:44.059
challenges that you're you're uh you're willing

00:26:44.059 --> 00:26:48.420
to take on so yeah there's um You know, that's

00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:50.180
what's tough with nutrition and even with our

00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:52.440
own podcast is people will write in and they'll

00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.400
ask a question. There are no yes and no black

00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:00.119
and white answers. The number one preface to

00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:02.940
every nutrition question for anybody who teaches

00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.900
nutrition and is worth an ounce of what they

00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:11.529
are teaching. It should be, it depends. That

00:27:11.529 --> 00:27:14.470
should be the number one preface to any nutrition

00:27:14.470 --> 00:27:17.309
question because to give a good answer, you've

00:27:17.309 --> 00:27:19.769
got to know the variables surrounding that question

00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.130
and then you can really give a good one. And

00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:24.250
that's going to vary, you know, just person to

00:27:24.250 --> 00:27:27.230
person. More with Kyle in just a moment, including

00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:30.269
his thoughts on drinking electrolytes. But I

00:27:30.269 --> 00:27:31.730
want to take a quick break to say thanks for

00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:34.109
listening to the podcast. Please text this episode

00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:36.349
with a fellow rucker that might find it interesting

00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:38.150
or a friend that could benefit from rucking.

00:27:38.670 --> 00:27:40.589
Sharing this episode would help the show grow

00:27:40.589 --> 00:27:42.809
and help more people improve their health and

00:27:42.809 --> 00:27:47.390
lives. Okay, back to it. You previously mentioned

00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:49.730
sports drinks. I kind of want to jump into hydration

00:27:49.730 --> 00:27:52.430
strategies and electrolytes now. When is the

00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:56.069
best time to consume? Let me back up. Should

00:27:56.069 --> 00:27:59.670
we be drinking electrolyte mixes on every ruck?

00:28:00.529 --> 00:28:05.109
No, no. So again, it depends. And the variables

00:28:05.109 --> 00:28:09.490
that it depends on are Number one, your environment,

00:28:09.609 --> 00:28:13.049
right? And so if you are in an environment and

00:28:13.049 --> 00:28:17.470
it's hot where you live and you have a propensity

00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:21.390
to sweat a lot and to sweat really easy, then

00:28:21.390 --> 00:28:25.009
yes, now you have a reason to at least ask the

00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:28.150
question, should I be taking these? If you don't,

00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:33.170
then there is nothing to suggest that you're

00:28:33.170 --> 00:28:35.750
going to gain anything by doing so if you don't.

00:28:36.190 --> 00:28:39.809
If you don't already. Right. So I think that

00:28:39.809 --> 00:28:42.569
that, that first and foremost is the question

00:28:42.569 --> 00:28:45.289
I'd be asking. Now, again, you got to go back

00:28:45.289 --> 00:28:47.289
to the question of, well, what's the intensity

00:28:47.289 --> 00:28:50.569
of your planned rock? What is the duration of

00:28:50.569 --> 00:28:53.630
your planned rock? If they're long, like for

00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:55.509
example, maybe the intensity is low, but the

00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:59.049
duration is long. Well, you drinking water during

00:28:59.049 --> 00:29:02.130
all of that and you peeing the whole time without

00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:05.660
taking in any salt, for example. you're going

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:08.279
to lose some sodium so you know in that scenario

00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.160
i would either be eating salty food or i would

00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.140
have some sort of an electrolyte powder that

00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:16.019
has salt in it simply so i don't dilute my sodium

00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:19.079
levels from drinking only water and that's only

00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.599
because i'm going to be doing it for so long

00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.539
but you know again and you may be able to answer

00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:28.160
this better than i can your average person engaged

00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.589
in a rucking activity doesn't have much more

00:29:32.589 --> 00:29:35.609
than an hour if that per day to give towards

00:29:35.609 --> 00:29:39.990
it right and so you know if you use that as sort

00:29:39.990 --> 00:29:45.049
of your example person in these scenarios then

00:29:45.049 --> 00:29:48.150
you know the answer is probably no you don't

00:29:48.150 --> 00:29:50.869
need fuel while you're rocking you don't necessarily

00:29:50.869 --> 00:29:53.069
need a supplement you don't necessarily need

00:29:53.069 --> 00:29:55.950
any sort of an electrolyte drink for something

00:29:55.950 --> 00:30:01.349
like that just a good solid daily nutrition regimen

00:30:01.349 --> 00:30:03.990
is going to get you as close as humanly possible

00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:07.369
to the performance that you want okay let's say

00:30:07.369 --> 00:30:12.789
let's say 100 degrees outside like 50 60 humidity

00:30:12.789 --> 00:30:15.890
crazy hot you're sweating you're going at a pretty

00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:20.349
good pace you are basically the the hardest you

00:30:20.349 --> 00:30:24.210
can go what are the more important electrolytes

00:30:24.210 --> 00:30:27.190
or are certain electrolytes more important than

00:30:27.190 --> 00:30:30.859
the others period yeah um and then if is there

00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:32.920
a ratio that people need to be looking at in

00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:36.420
terms of like magnesium potassium sodium yeah

00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:38.880
that's a good question yeah that's a great question

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.759
so in that in that scenario i'm gonna say um

00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.180
we actually just did a podcast slash it was a

00:30:46.180 --> 00:30:48.539
youtube video for green belly who makes these

00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:50.480
meal to go's if anybody's familiar with that

00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.720
for like backpacking food okay and it was all

00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:54.619
about electrolytes so they asked they asked a

00:30:54.619 --> 00:30:58.660
lot of these questions too By choosing one is

00:30:58.660 --> 00:31:00.160
almost like saying choose your favorite kid.

00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.039
But for the sake of conversation, I would say

00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:06.680
that sodium is probably the one to pay the most

00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:08.759
attention to for two reasons. Number one, it's

00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:12.460
the one that we need in greatest quantity. And

00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.259
number two, it is also the one with the greatest

00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:18.420
concentration lost in sweat of all the electrolytes.

00:31:18.990 --> 00:31:20.910
the one, the, the electrolyte that's lost the

00:31:20.910 --> 00:31:23.190
most in sweat is generally going to be sodium.

00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:24.410
So that's going to be the one you want to pay

00:31:24.410 --> 00:31:27.549
attention to most. Now we live in a day and age

00:31:27.549 --> 00:31:30.630
where like before you had Gatorade or make your

00:31:30.630 --> 00:31:34.589
own. And now, gosh, I mean, it seems like everyone

00:31:34.589 --> 00:31:37.529
in every state has a different electrolyte powder

00:31:37.529 --> 00:31:41.390
that range from 200 milligrams of sodium and

00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:44.529
some, which would be like Gatorade to north of

00:31:44.529 --> 00:31:47.289
a thousand in element, right? Depending on the

00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:50.869
concentration that you, you you mix it at so

00:31:50.869 --> 00:31:53.890
the the number one question that you need to

00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:56.150
ask yourself though in that environment of 100

00:31:56.150 --> 00:31:58.069
degrees let's say you and i were to go for a

00:31:58.069 --> 00:32:01.869
rock we get back you have a huge salt ring around

00:32:01.869 --> 00:32:05.069
your shirt and in the bill of your hat and i

00:32:05.069 --> 00:32:07.390
have nothing right i mean we're both sweating

00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:09.509
about the same but i've got absolutely nothing

00:32:09.509 --> 00:32:12.970
you would be categorized uh what we would categorize

00:32:12.970 --> 00:32:15.930
as a quote salty sweater that means your your

00:32:15.930 --> 00:32:20.390
your sweat contains a fairly large portion of

00:32:20.390 --> 00:32:23.549
salt in it because we can see it it doesn't mean

00:32:23.549 --> 00:32:26.809
that mine doesn't have any but not the concentration

00:32:26.809 --> 00:32:31.009
that yours does so in in that case then i would

00:32:31.009 --> 00:32:33.950
say yeah you probably would benefit from having

00:32:33.950 --> 00:32:37.369
something whereas i may not by no other reason

00:32:37.369 --> 00:32:40.089
than the concentration of sweat now they make

00:32:40.089 --> 00:32:45.210
nowadays they have um at home sweat rate kits

00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:47.650
that you can pick up that will literally tell

00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:49.750
you the amount of sodium that you're losing in

00:32:49.750 --> 00:32:52.190
a given time. Oh, interesting. And then we, we

00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:56.069
have standards that we can recommend, um, replacement

00:32:56.069 --> 00:32:58.789
for. So like sometimes the standard can be 400

00:32:58.789 --> 00:33:02.910
to 800 milligrams of sodium per hour for an athlete

00:33:02.910 --> 00:33:07.589
doing an, a endurance event. But again, you can't

00:33:07.589 --> 00:33:09.750
say everybody needs that because it depends on

00:33:09.750 --> 00:33:11.789
that person and whether or not they're losing

00:33:11.789 --> 00:33:14.250
that amount to see whether or not they should

00:33:14.250 --> 00:33:17.349
supplement with it. Now, to your question about

00:33:17.349 --> 00:33:19.970
ratios and scenarios and concentrations and all

00:33:19.970 --> 00:33:25.509
that, that has become more apparent lately as

00:33:25.509 --> 00:33:29.089
certain companies have made us think that we

00:33:29.089 --> 00:33:31.349
need these ratios. Now, you've got to think that.

00:33:31.789 --> 00:33:34.069
The folks that are promoting this and selling

00:33:34.069 --> 00:33:36.670
these products, they've got to have some reason

00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:40.789
to make you think they're the best, right? We've

00:33:40.789 --> 00:33:42.950
got the concentration and here's the ratio and

00:33:42.950 --> 00:33:45.490
here's what you need it in. And I would say that

00:33:45.490 --> 00:33:53.809
in the medical and in the academic world, yes,

00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:56.329
there are books and concentrations in which we

00:33:56.329 --> 00:33:58.210
need some of that stuff. But for your average

00:33:58.210 --> 00:34:01.140
person, I would say it does not matter. I would

00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:03.019
say for your average person, it does not matter.

00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.460
And I would again go back to and defer to you

00:34:06.460 --> 00:34:09.460
are the litmus test. Which one do you like the

00:34:09.460 --> 00:34:11.480
best? Which one are you most likely to take?

00:34:11.539 --> 00:34:13.159
Which one can you afford? Because these things

00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.539
are not cheap, right? I mean, you get like a

00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:19.440
box of six of liquid IV and you're talking $17

00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.639
sometimes. That's not even a week's worth of

00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:24.179
that. And now all of a sudden you've got an $80

00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:30.500
a month, you know. electrolyte habit. And so

00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:33.780
I think that when you look across the board,

00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.559
if you find and you check all the boxes that

00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:41.480
suggest, yeah, I might in the summer months benefit

00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:45.199
from taking some of this in. Now you've got to

00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.079
just find the one that's going to sit the best

00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:49.340
with you. So I'll give you an example. Even if

00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:55.460
I sweat a lot, I can personally hardly stomach

00:34:56.059 --> 00:34:59.579
the element powders. It is so much salt and such

00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:02.000
a high concentration that I can, I mean, it's

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.579
a struggle for me to get one down. And so you

00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.500
can talk to other guys who say like, that's my

00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:10.440
favorite one. But again, that's where it goes

00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:13.139
back to practical versus optimal. And you just

00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.760
have to find the solution that's going to be

00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.960
the best for you. All right. That wraps up the

00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:20.510
first half of my conversation with Kyle. You

00:35:20.510 --> 00:35:23.369
can connect with him over at v2pnutrition .com.

00:35:23.489 --> 00:35:27.010
That's the number two in V2P Nutrition. Or at

00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:30.130
v2pnutrition on Instagram. If you want to reach

00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:32.230
out to me, head on over to theruckersedge .com

00:35:32.230 --> 00:35:35.449
or on Instagram at theruckersedgepod. If you

00:35:35.449 --> 00:35:37.150
enjoyed today's episode, make sure to follow

00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:39.230
or subscribe to the show so that you're notified

00:35:39.230 --> 00:35:42.170
of new episodes. All right, that's it for today.

00:35:42.289 --> 00:35:44.630
Thanks again for listening to this week's episode

00:35:44.630 --> 00:35:45.789
of The Rucker's Edge.