Rucking Pace Explained: Train Smarter, Finish Stronger

WEBVTT

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Are you starting your rucks too fast and paying

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for it miles into the ruck? If you're anything

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like me, you think that getting faster means

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pushing harder. But the athletes who consistently

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perform well during long rucks and endurance

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events usually do the opposite. They know when

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to hold back, how to manage their effort, and

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why pacing is one of the most important skills

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you can develop. In this episode, performance

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coach and return guest on the pod, Sam Svetkovsky,

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explains how to find your ideal training pace,

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why easy days build better endurance, how to

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pace yourself for races and long distance events,

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and the common mistakes that leave ruckers exhausted

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before they reach the finish line. You're listening

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to the Rucker's Edge podcast, a show all about

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rucking that is designed to help you improve

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your rucking routine, lose weight, and ultimately

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gain your strength and energy back. Each episode

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dives into the science, stories, and strategies

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behind rucking. You'll learn from top ruckers,

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coaches, health experts, and performance specialists

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who break down what it takes to train smarter,

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recover faster, and stay ready for the next challenge.

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So whether you're new to rucking or an experienced

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rucker that's already logged hundreds of miles,

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this is the show for you. I'm your host, Spencer.

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Thanks for listening in. Today's guest, again,

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is Sam Svetkovsky. She's a performance coach

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over at Omni Athlete Training. Sam works with

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endurance athletes competing in everything from

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ultra marathons to long -distance ruck events.

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She's helping them build smarter training plans,

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improve pacing, and perform their best on race

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day. So in this conversation, she shares practical

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pacing strategies that every Rucker can apply

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immediately, whether you're training for your

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first event or your next endurance challenge.

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All right. Please enjoy my conversation with

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Sam. Sam, thanks for joining me again here on

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the Rucker's Edge podcast. It's really great

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to have you back. Thank you. I'm excited to be

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back. Today we're talking about pace and you

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have a lot of experience with pace. You had a

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busy June in which you were doing a lot of sort

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of pace work. I think you were coaching Jen Tillard

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with a 100 miler and you also did some ultra

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marathon pacing work too. So busy June for you.

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Recording this here in July. I understand next

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month you might have some more things. So I'm

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glad that you carved out some time to talk about

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this. But yeah, let's get into pacing. I kind

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of want to talk about why pacing with a ruck

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is different than running or any other form of

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exercise. So I guess I kind of want to talk about

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what the load actually does to our bodies and

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how we should be adapting or changing our pace

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as opposed to running or something else. I don't

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know if you have any insights to offer on that.

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Yeah, no, absolutely. I hear this a lot where...

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People will start to get into rucking and especially

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if they've run before and they're like, oh, I

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can just go for the same exact run just with

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a ruck on my back, even if it's, you know, 10,

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15 pounds. And I think that's just it's just

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such a naive way to look at it. Right. And then

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they go and they do that. And that's often when

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we start to see those injuries. I think, though,

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when we really look at rucking, what what it

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is, it's it's. we're not just managing the movement

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or the pace, right? We're managing a load now.

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And so it becomes more about like this energy

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efficiency rather than just pacing over time.

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So we need to be able to balance those two things

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out. In terms of talking about efficiency, do

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you think when it comes to pacing under load,

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is it more important to think about our... our

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efforts that we're putting into it as opposed

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to, you know, trying to stick to like a hard

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time or anything like that, if that question

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makes sense. Yeah, no, it definitely does. And

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I mean, we do that with running too, right? It's

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more about saying exactly that. Like, I like

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to use the example of like running uphill versus

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running on a flat, right? And we can say that,

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okay, I'm rucking versus running or I'm rucking

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with more weight or less weight. But let's use

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the hill analogy because I think everybody can

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picture this. If you're holding whatever your

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pace is on a flat, if you maintain that exact

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same effort as you start to go uphill, your pace

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naturally drops, right? And so that's the same

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idea like if we think about adding load. So if

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I'm moving at whatever pace it is normally without

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that additional weight, if I can maintain that

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same effort, my pace will likely pull back or

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drop a bit compared to what I'm used to. But

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you're also changing things like your mechanics

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of how you're moving. Like it's not the exact

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same thing as a walk or a run. And so there's

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a lot more to think about like as you add that

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weight, especially as that weight gets higher

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and higher. Oh, for sure. Yeah, immediately when

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you start rocking with weight for the first time

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and you cover maybe a quarter of a mile when

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you're used to walking a quarter of a mile and

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your heart rate is already pumping, you're like,

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okay, I need to start adapting here or maybe

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not adjusting here is what I'm looking for. You

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brought up, yeah, comparing it to walking up

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or down a hill. It's a great analogy. I really

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like that. And speaking of that, yeah, I guess

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doing research for this, one thing that came

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up. Well, one thing that I thought about was

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hiking different terrain and perceived exertion.

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And that's kind of why I asked you about effort

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adjusted pace sort of situation. I guess specifically,

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do you coach using that method or do you go into

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like technical details in terms of like timing

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or anything like that? I guess what I'm asking

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is when you approach training someone for the

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first time and pace, what do you tell them to

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think about, I guess, when it comes to like perceived

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exertion? Yeah, it really depends on what they're

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training for. But we can use, I mean, Jenna is

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a great example, right? She's familiar with wrecking

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and maybe hasn't like trained in it as consistently

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leading up to her events. And so when she had

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started and working with me and she ended up

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completing her 100 miler, which was incredible,

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she... What we did was actually kind of slow

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her down, right? She was used to going to CrossFit

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and going hard at very high intensities. And

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it was really about just maintaining over longer

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periods of time. And so there's a lot of different

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methods that we will use. Like we will use heart

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rate training zones. You can use the standard

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ones. There's another one. that we utilize called

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MAF, which is maximum aerobic function, which

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is just like a shifted view of like those heart

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rate zones. So it's not the same exact one that's

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typically programmed on your Garmin watch or

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whatever watch you're using. And then you use

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like different types of training, right? Like

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you will do higher intensity days, but for shorter

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periods of time. If you look at some of her and

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other athletes like training notes, sometimes

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in there will be like, I need you to take this

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so easy. And it's just like very dramatic of

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like, I want you to feel like you did nothing

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after this. And the fact is, like, we're still

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moving. We're still doing this work. But a lot

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of times we perceive our easy as not really that

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easy. Right. Like if I go out for an easy run

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and. My heart rate is, you know, 160 and I'm

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sweating and I'm gas and I can't talk that entire

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time. It's not an easy run, even if I say it

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is. Right. There's a lot of vital signs that

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show us what is an easy versus not. But the like

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the simplest one and you don't need technology

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to follow it is the talk test. Right. Can you

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hold the conversation while you're moving? And

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that's a lot of where when you start to get into

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these like longer. rucking or running or any

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endurance effort a lot of your time is spent

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in that you know conversation or easier pace

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because you just need to stay there for so long

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gotcha yeah that that makes sense isn't that

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a good tell to tell if you're in like your heart

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rate zone too i think that's sort of what's recommended

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it's like if you can carry a conversation and

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um yeah feel like you can You can keep going

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at that at that pace. You're in zone two. Totally.

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What would happen to someone's event performance

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if they train too hard all the time and not scale

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back like you talked about with what you did

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with Jen? Yeah, I think that just leaves the

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burnout. You know, it leaves the burnout. It

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leaves the injury. It doesn't actually prepare

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you for what you're trying to do. If the idea

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here is that. You need to sustain not just within

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your sessions, but you need to be durable and

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sustainable over the entire time that you're

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training and then going into that event. And

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I think I like I've seen this and I've done it

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myself. Right. Going into a go rock event and

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not really knowing what it was about. especially

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these like longer 12, 24 hour ones, I would just

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go to the gym normally throughout that whole

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week, do my normal thing. And then the next day

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go into this, you know, go rock tough or heavy,

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not even thinking about it and not realizing

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like how much fatigue was on my body at that

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point. And understanding that all of these sessions

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don't have to be intense all the time. It's,

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it's almost like it. It should be frustrating

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how easy it feels sometimes because we're so

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used to such like a quick stimulus of, hey, that

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was such a good workout. I sweat, my muscles

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hurt, I'm gassed, I'm laying on the ground, right?

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And if you continually do that over and over

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again, you never are really building that true

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base and you're never giving yourself the time

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to recover properly either. And there's there's

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a lot of things like as you get closer to race

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day, should you be doing more race specific things?

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Absolutely. Like I actually had this conversation

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with George, the owner of Omni Athlete the other

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day, where we were talking about how to practice

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fueling and nutrition for longer endurance events.

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And the fact is, like, it's really hard to simulate

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what it's going to feel like. after five, six,

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12, 24 hours, right? But we can't realistically

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do that in training. And so there's different

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ways that you can do it. And that is going about

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by, hey, maybe I do one long ruck every week.

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I don't need to do three or four long rucks,

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like one long ruck every week. And in that, I'm

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practicing my nutrition, but I also know and

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can start to see, oh, maybe around hour three,

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hour four, that's where things start to feel

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a little bit different. And so it's like, yes,

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you need to be specific to what you're training

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for, but doing things at your race pace or just

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long and hard durations all the time. doesn't

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set you up for that same success as if you're

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consistently building over the weeks and months

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leading up. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like if

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you're not pushing as hard as your event pacing

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or effort, the consistency key is, or the consistency

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aspect of that is the key part, the vital part

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is keeping your body used to going and moving

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without extended amounts of breaks. Okay. So

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let's transition to, maybe formulating or implementing

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how to find your pace and that we want to establish.

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I'm thinking you're the expert. I'm just kind

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of thinking in terms of my research, I was like,

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okay, so someone should probably establish their

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baseline and then figure out what their training

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pace would be and then understanding where they

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should target, where they should be for their

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event pace, how fast they want to go. I guess

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any events here we could talk about? compared

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to a GoRuck or a Greenbrae Fitness type of event.

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But let's start with baseline. If someone's getting

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into rucking for the first time, they want to

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compete in some sort of event or a race, what's

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like a simple way to find their baseline, I guess?

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Yeah, you can do a simple test, right? And you

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can do any duration that's kind of fit to where

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your fitness level is as well. A lot of times

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we'll look at like a 60 or it's really like a

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45 minute effort and sustaining a heart rate

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or an easy pace below like 150. And that shifts

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a little based on the age and everything else

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and some other factors. But generally, like you

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could use. If you want to use a hard number,

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right, you do 150 or do 180 minus your age and

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then stay right at or below that heart rate zone.

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So for me, 34, 180 minus 34 is what? 146. Is

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that right? Yeah. So and then there's like a

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little bit of shifting like you get plus or minus

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depending on like your basically fitness age

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or your if you're advanced versus beginner. But

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if you stay below, let's just use 150. or right

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around that for 60 minutes, see how far you go.

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And then after your, you know, four week, eight

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week, 12 week training block, you can retest

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that again. And that's like a really good way

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to like measure just like how, how am I sustaining

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at this heart rate over the time? So if I can

00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.200
maintain that same heart rate, but then my pace

00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.720
starts to go up, that's where we start to see

00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:02.240
you, you get to that point. The other question

00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.799
is like, oh, well, what pace should I be at?

00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.419
It really depends on, you know, the type of event

00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:10.679
you're doing too, right? Like we say GORUCK,

00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.200
GORUCK's a little challenging, right? It's a

00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.480
team event. You got to kind of stay with everybody

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.620
else. And we do know those are like a little,

00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:20.799
I don't want to say slow moving, but you are

00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:22.799
moving as a team. You're carrying a lot of stuff.

00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:25.379
And so that's more about just like consistency

00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:30.610
of movement over time. But for something that

00:14:30.610 --> 00:14:34.549
is self -paced, right, like a rucking race, Greenbrae

00:14:34.549 --> 00:14:39.970
Fitness is a great example. It's. Again, it's

00:14:39.970 --> 00:14:44.809
it's can you at what point do you feel like you're

00:14:44.809 --> 00:14:48.049
gassed, right, like where I can't talk. And so

00:14:48.049 --> 00:14:52.149
if you use that as your barometer, if you're

00:14:52.149 --> 00:14:55.309
not using a heart rate zone or a heart rate number.

00:14:56.460 --> 00:15:00.539
it's a really good place. So how far can I push

00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:04.279
to this not being able to talk point, but also

00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.580
maintain it? And a lot of times when people do

00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:09.960
these tests, they're like, wow, that was so slow.

00:15:10.690 --> 00:15:13.870
Right. Because because, again, we perceive our

00:15:13.870 --> 00:15:17.409
efforts so differently than, you know, like you'll

00:15:17.409 --> 00:15:19.929
go on Strava and be like, oh, recovery run. Right.

00:15:20.009 --> 00:15:23.149
If it's a slower run than you're used to or recovery

00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:25.610
ruck. And it's like, no, these things aren't

00:15:25.610 --> 00:15:28.450
necessarily recovery. They're actually what build

00:15:28.450 --> 00:15:34.190
that aerobic base. Yeah. Is that is that test?

00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:37.870
Is that applicable to beginners and experienced

00:15:37.870 --> 00:15:41.659
ruckers across the board? Yeah, absolutely. Is

00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:47.179
that method used for running and swimming or

00:15:47.179 --> 00:15:51.460
any sport? Yeah, I had mentioned it earlier,

00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.919
just like that MAF method, M -A -F. And that's

00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.120
that 180 minus your age. And again, there's little

00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.779
buffers of like, hey, if you're a beginner, it

00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:02.879
actually goes lower. And if you've been doing

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.620
it for three, four, five years, you actually

00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:09.120
get a slightly higher heart rate. Probably the

00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.019
most simple way to do it. I've had people that

00:16:12.019 --> 00:16:16.000
don't have heart rate monitors. And so it's more

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.960
of like, hey, use that conversation pace. And

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.320
so don't go above where you could completely

00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.580
have a full conversation and complete sentences.

00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:29.049
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Good deal. Once

00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:32.769
someone sort of knows what pace they should be

00:16:32.769 --> 00:16:36.090
targeting, how do they turn that into a event

00:16:36.090 --> 00:16:39.269
strategy for long distance rucks? I don't know

00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:42.850
if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. Because I

00:16:42.850 --> 00:16:47.879
suffer from going out too hard. Too fast. And

00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:50.279
we'll hit on the stakes later. Right. I know.

00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:52.080
It's just that you're excited. Right. So you're

00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.659
like, oh, yeah, let's get let's attack this.

00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.120
And you're like, oh, gosh. So how do you how

00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.179
do you how do you how do you build a strategy

00:16:58.179 --> 00:17:00.399
around the pace that you're targeting? Yeah,

00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:03.000
it's it's interesting. And it depends on the

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.680
distances and often the athlete themselves and

00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.740
just like where some of their strengths and weaknesses

00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:12.819
are. And so. We can just continue to use Jen

00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:14.579
as an example because I think it's a good one.

00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:18.559
It's showing true distance with wrecking. And

00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:26.059
so in her training, she was doing 10 -mile loops

00:17:26.059 --> 00:17:29.779
similar to what the course was, right? And so

00:17:29.779 --> 00:17:32.759
she would do a 10 -mile loop, she would get to

00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.900
her car, she would refuel, and she would go again.

00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:39.559
And the cues and guidance in that, Those loops

00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.640
were, I need you to go at a pace before, like

00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.140
we were kind of deciding was like, I need you

00:17:45.140 --> 00:17:47.940
to go at a pace that you think you could do for

00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:51.799
50 miles. Right. Because the idea is that you,

00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:53.740
once you get, let's say if you're doing a hundred,

00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:57.819
if you get to that 50 mile marker, you should

00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:01.940
feel like it was too easy. That first 50 miles

00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:06.710
was too easy. Right. Because if you had. I actually

00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:08.369
looked this up because I was trying to think

00:18:08.369 --> 00:18:10.990
of a way to explain this, but, and I really liked

00:18:10.990 --> 00:18:13.730
what someone had said, where it's like, if you

00:18:13.730 --> 00:18:17.950
have a hundred dollars to spend and you have

00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:20.789
like, let's say it's 24 hours, let's say a race

00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:22.730
is a 24 hour cutoff. You have a hundred dollars

00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:25.710
to spend a hundred miles to get right. If you

00:18:25.710 --> 00:18:29.109
spend $50 in that first eight hours, then you

00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:31.630
only have $50 left for the rest of it. Right.

00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:35.130
And so it's like, it's the same idea. If I spend.

00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:40.369
you know, 50 % of my energy in that first half

00:18:40.369 --> 00:18:44.589
or even before that, let's say I've spent 50

00:18:44.589 --> 00:18:47.609
% in the first third of it, I have way less to

00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:50.289
get through the rest of the time. And so when

00:18:50.289 --> 00:18:53.190
we start looking at like true paces, so I forget

00:18:53.190 --> 00:18:57.809
what the exact timing was for the 100 miler,

00:18:57.869 --> 00:19:00.609
but let's say you had to sustain a 20 minute

00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:04.930
mile pace to get in. under the time or to whatever

00:19:04.930 --> 00:19:09.730
the time like hack you have for yourself. What

00:19:09.730 --> 00:19:13.049
you can do, right, you have to also factor in

00:19:13.049 --> 00:19:14.289
things are going to change, things are going

00:19:14.289 --> 00:19:16.109
to go wrong, like you have to eat, you might

00:19:16.109 --> 00:19:17.789
want to sleep for a few minutes, those types

00:19:17.789 --> 00:19:19.650
of things, especially once you get past that

00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:25.809
24 hour mark, is you can go under like the pace

00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:28.369
that you want or go a little bit slower than

00:19:28.369 --> 00:19:31.470
the pace you want and start to turn it on. As

00:19:31.470 --> 00:19:33.829
you keep going. So like, it's like the, the back

00:19:33.829 --> 00:19:36.069
half might be faster than the front half, which,

00:19:36.130 --> 00:19:38.970
which does happen very often. Um, if you train

00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:41.970
it properly and you don't go out too hot, right

00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.390
from the beginning, the other pieces, like, I

00:19:45.390 --> 00:19:48.410
think what, what we had discussed was, let's

00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:50.509
say it was a 20 minute pace, like to get under

00:19:50.509 --> 00:19:55.750
the time that she was aiming for. We were gauging

00:19:55.750 --> 00:19:59.809
for about like a 19 minute mile in that first

00:19:59.809 --> 00:20:03.019
half. Because what happens is it's not that she

00:20:03.019 --> 00:20:05.140
couldn't sustain the same pace at the second

00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:07.680
half. Like she definitely could. But what's going

00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.779
to happen is that effort feels different. Right.

00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.680
And so it's like if you're wasting, not wasting,

00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.140
but if you're spending all of your energy up

00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:19.940
front to go faster to try to bank time, you're

00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:21.900
not going to be able to have that push at the

00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:27.119
end. And so it's, you know. And it's more about,

00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:29.960
again, that energy management, right? If you

00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.380
can sustain a 20 minute mile for the entire effort,

00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:36.220
that's great. But mile one and mile 50 and mile

00:20:36.220 --> 00:20:39.279
99 are all going to feel very different. And

00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.420
so it's saying, can I reserve some of that energy

00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.779
spend for later so I can sustain the effort I

00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:50.099
need to and the pace I need to without burning

00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.000
out and like burning everything to the ground

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.900
right away? Because that last few miles like

00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:58.980
burn the ships. Right. Yeah. So that's thank

00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:01.640
you so much for that insight. And I would imagine

00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:06.079
the athlete has to have that at the forefront

00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.859
of their mind almost constantly. And should should

00:21:09.859 --> 00:21:14.779
the athletes be asking themselves, OK, do I need

00:21:14.779 --> 00:21:17.559
to back off? Do I need to push based off of how

00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:19.440
much obviously how much further you have to go

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.720
and how you're feeling? You constantly have to

00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.279
be thinking about that, I imagine, especially

00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:27.599
over a long distance, like 100 miles. Yeah, but

00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:31.059
trail math can get you pretty bad. And that is

00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:33.720
like one of I think that's one of the big benefits

00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:35.980
of working with a crew or working with a coach

00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:38.720
that you can communicate with throughout is that

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:43.140
it's really easy to get sucked into this this

00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:46.119
mindset of like, oh, I don't have enough time.

00:21:46.670 --> 00:21:50.289
Right. Yeah. And we often underestimate how much

00:21:50.289 --> 00:21:54.329
time we have when we're in the moment. A really

00:21:54.329 --> 00:21:58.750
good example of this was at Operation Apollo

00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:03.569
with Greenbrae Fitness. Dustin, Dustin Parsons,

00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:08.710
he was crushing like he was crushing the event

00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:11.029
and he got to think checkpoint three. So probably.

00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:14.480
for those of you who don't know, it's a 68 mile

00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:18.920
rock, 25 pounds. There's four checkpoints with

00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.259
water and like very bare minimum food. So you're

00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:23.619
basically self -supporting throughout and you

00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:27.460
have a 24 hour time, uh, cut to, to finish the

00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:30.759
race. And so he had gotten to, I want to say

00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.079
it was checkpoint three really quickly. So what

00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:39.920
is that? Like mile 40 or mile? Yeah. Mile 35,

00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:44.750
40. And he laid down and he slept, I want to

00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:48.150
say, for four or five hours, whereas most people

00:22:48.150 --> 00:22:50.390
like the night before I was up at checkpoint

00:22:50.390 --> 00:22:54.609
to everybody was like, oh, I'm so tired. I don't

00:22:54.609 --> 00:22:57.390
feel good. My stomach hurts. I don't know if

00:22:57.390 --> 00:23:00.049
I can do this. And I looked right at them and

00:23:00.049 --> 00:23:04.250
I said, you have so much time. Right. Like and

00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:07.769
he just proved that. Yeah. It's one of those

00:23:07.769 --> 00:23:11.230
things where when you are feeling. bad for yourself,

00:23:11.430 --> 00:23:14.710
you often start to get through this like dark

00:23:14.710 --> 00:23:17.690
cycle of, oh, I don't have time unless I move

00:23:17.690 --> 00:23:20.970
faster. And like, I've done it myself. I like

00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:24.569
in a backyard, the last loop I didn't make, I

00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:27.829
was doing really bad time math. Like I knew where

00:23:27.829 --> 00:23:29.990
I needed to run. I wasn't doing it. And then

00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:32.029
at some point I kind of self -sabotaged of like,

00:23:32.130 --> 00:23:34.089
oh, well now I'm not going to make it anymore.

00:23:34.309 --> 00:23:36.329
And realistically, I probably could have made

00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:38.809
it. I just had to do what I needed to do. It's

00:23:38.809 --> 00:23:41.779
just like, yeah. If you start doing that math

00:23:41.779 --> 00:23:45.839
too much and like bird dogging your watch, this

00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.940
is where it's so important to like train at these

00:23:48.940 --> 00:23:52.940
paces because you get comfortable moving at this,

00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:57.680
you know, slower pace or what feels slower. Does

00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.119
that sort of feel like, so growing up playing

00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.460
baseball, I pitched and our coach was always

00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:06.039
talking about muscle memory. I would imagine

00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:08.599
after moving for that distance at that pace.

00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:10.849
Over and over and over. Does that sort of become

00:24:10.849 --> 00:24:13.490
muscle memory at that point? For sure. And then

00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:16.109
you just get better at it too. And I know this

00:24:16.109 --> 00:24:18.470
shifts away from rucking, but you look at like

00:24:18.470 --> 00:24:24.769
elite ultra marathoners and they're holding eight

00:24:24.769 --> 00:24:28.309
minute paces, sometimes under eight minute paces

00:24:28.309 --> 00:24:32.509
at the same heart rate zone. We're holding 12,

00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:36.269
13, 14 minute miles. Right. And so it's like,

00:24:36.309 --> 00:24:40.589
it's just one of those things that. This is where

00:24:40.589 --> 00:24:44.329
going by that feel, it takes time. You need to

00:24:44.329 --> 00:24:46.509
have the data behind it to show, hey, you are

00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:48.569
actually moving in these paces you should be.

00:24:48.930 --> 00:24:51.210
But then you can start to feel what that actually

00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:55.250
feels like. I joke about it, but I can generally

00:24:55.250 --> 00:24:59.740
tell when my heart rate clicks over. to about

00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:05.079
one it's about 154 155 now because i know because

00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:07.680
i can feel like the slight changes in my body

00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:12.039
and then i know when i'm hitting um like threshold

00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:16.500
as well and and where you know it starts to really

00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:18.559
like my muscles start to get a little bit tighter

00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.099
and all i have to do is stop and walk or slow

00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:25.799
down for 30 seconds 60 seconds and then my body

00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.079
just everything changes and so it's like you

00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:32.559
start to like you need the data behind it but

00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.160
you also need to work through how does this feel

00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.859
in those and and not like again not bird dogging

00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:41.420
it but understanding just like sometimes you

00:25:41.420 --> 00:25:45.089
just got to move More with Sam in just a moment,

00:25:45.130 --> 00:25:47.150
including the work she puts into pacing ultra

00:25:47.150 --> 00:25:49.769
marathon runners, which I found absolutely fascinating.

00:25:50.150 --> 00:25:52.349
But first, do you know a fellow rucker or endurance

00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:54.710
athlete struggling to find their pace? If so,

00:25:54.789 --> 00:25:56.809
please text this episode to them. Sharing this

00:25:56.809 --> 00:25:58.769
episode would not only help them, it will also

00:25:58.769 --> 00:26:01.130
help the show grow, which will then help even

00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:03.930
more people improve their health and lives. Thanks.

00:26:04.509 --> 00:26:07.930
Okay, back to it. So before we go into mistakes,

00:26:08.190 --> 00:26:12.000
I am curious about... The work that you do pacing

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:17.859
athletes for ultras and whatnot. You mentioned

00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:20.259
the phrase bird jogging. That's what I do in

00:26:20.259 --> 00:26:24.759
my longer efforts. And through my Garmin, I now

00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.039
have figured out how to find I've been putting

00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:31.059
off for so long, how to put the pace alert on,

00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:35.599
which has been an experience just because I'm

00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:37.920
still I'm struggling to stay within pace. And

00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:39.440
it's constantly you're going too fast. You're

00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:40.599
going too slow. You're going too fast. You're

00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:42.880
going too slow. So I definitely see the value

00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:47.119
in having someone pace. you at those long events

00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.640
and efforts like ultras. Take us into that world.

00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:53.980
So when people call you for help, what specifically

00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:56.599
are they asking for? What do you provide? Like,

00:26:56.660 --> 00:26:58.779
are you involved in their training or do you

00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:00.240
just show up at the events? I mean, they're asking

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:05.000
for a babysitter. Got you. No, so. Oh, you're

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.180
joking. I was like, I mean, I don't know. I could

00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:09.880
use a babysitter out with the trail. No, for

00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:13.390
sure. Hey, time to drink. Time to fuel. It is

00:27:13.390 --> 00:27:15.710
exactly that a lot of the time. But, you know,

00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:18.490
it is it is different. Sometimes it is athletes

00:27:18.490 --> 00:27:21.329
that we're working with others. It's a connection

00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:25.869
that we have through other athletes. And, you

00:27:25.869 --> 00:27:27.890
know, there's there's two components, especially

00:27:27.890 --> 00:27:30.569
in ultra running. There's the crewing and then

00:27:30.569 --> 00:27:35.410
there's the pacing. And so. The crewing aspect

00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:38.109
is really important because you're helping your

00:27:38.109 --> 00:27:40.960
runner like in those. moments at eight stations

00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.819
and you are assessing where they are and kind

00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:46.579
of talking through like what they need to do

00:27:46.579 --> 00:27:51.240
um and it is there's one strategy or there's

00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.799
some strategy to it for sure there's i mean there

00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:55.539
definitely is when you start to get to these

00:27:55.539 --> 00:27:59.160
multi -day events like how do we make sure that

00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.029
they sleep enough to get to that next aid station

00:28:03.029 --> 00:28:05.549
that next checkpoint but then there's the pacing

00:28:05.549 --> 00:28:08.029
right so you're actually with them and i always

00:28:08.029 --> 00:28:11.289
i talk about it it's kind of like the um if you

00:28:11.289 --> 00:28:13.589
ever watch like a horse race and then when the

00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:15.509
horses walk out there's the horse next to them

00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:17.430
that's just like the buddy and keeps them calm

00:28:17.430 --> 00:28:21.109
that's kind of your job as the pacer is like

00:28:21.109 --> 00:28:24.289
i it's a joke but it is like truly like taking

00:28:24.289 --> 00:28:26.009
care of a toddler at times where you're like

00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:28.690
hey you have to eat you have to drink you know

00:28:28.690 --> 00:28:33.710
you have to keep moving and It's not sometimes

00:28:33.710 --> 00:28:37.109
it is about pacing in the sense of like, hey,

00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:39.690
we really got to, you know, kind of keep moving.

00:28:39.750 --> 00:28:41.849
Right. And it's not necessarily, hey, we have

00:28:41.849 --> 00:28:44.730
to hold this 20 minute mile or whatever it is,

00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:48.910
but it's it's keeping them moving forward. And

00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:53.529
other times this happened when I was out at Cocodona.

00:28:53.990 --> 00:28:58.089
We kept joking our runner, Mark, he. kept trying

00:28:58.089 --> 00:29:00.670
to drop us as like pacers and crew because he

00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:02.690
was just like moving way faster through certain

00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:04.910
sections than we thought but I was out running

00:29:04.910 --> 00:29:07.769
with him and he had passed the 200 mile mark

00:29:07.769 --> 00:29:12.269
at this point and How long is that race? I can't

00:29:12.269 --> 00:29:15.529
remember. So, Cocodona is 250. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

00:29:15.549 --> 00:29:17.970
So, we're, it's day, what, four or something?

00:29:18.549 --> 00:29:21.690
Okay. Day three, day four. I'm with him. He passes

00:29:21.690 --> 00:29:24.809
200 miles. It's super exciting. We're moving.

00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:27.210
We get to this A station, or we're nearing an

00:29:27.210 --> 00:29:30.730
A station. And all of a sudden, he just starts

00:29:30.730 --> 00:29:34.390
running. Like, he's holding, like, a 9, 930 minute

00:29:34.390 --> 00:29:40.069
pace, mile pace. I'm going and I'm texting the

00:29:40.069 --> 00:29:42.509
crew, our crew back there. And I'm like, guys,

00:29:42.670 --> 00:29:45.490
Mark's trying to drop me like this is crazy.

00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:49.690
And we did this for it was maybe a mile or so.

00:29:50.049 --> 00:29:52.710
And he's definitely just having fun. Right. And

00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:54.769
he looks at me. He's like, oh, yeah, we should

00:29:54.769 --> 00:29:57.490
probably slow down. And so sometimes sometimes

00:29:57.490 --> 00:30:00.250
it is saying, hey, you know what? We do need

00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:03.670
to pull back a little, too. And helping them

00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:07.750
just, you know, stay stay on track. But yeah,

00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:11.170
it's a super, honestly, if you get an opportunity

00:30:11.170 --> 00:30:14.369
to like crew or pace for an ultra, it's an incredible

00:30:14.369 --> 00:30:18.710
experience. And it helps teach, like I keep saying,

00:30:18.849 --> 00:30:23.150
now I've been able to help and support two 200

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.509
milers and then have also volunteered at them

00:30:26.509 --> 00:30:31.759
as well. You learn so much just by working with

00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.099
other people. Right. You start to see like what

00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:36.859
works for nutrition, what does work for pace.

00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.680
Right. Like everyone says, oh, ultra running

00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.660
is not running because you don't run all the

00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:43.599
time. Well, yeah, you're going up and down mountains.

00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.559
You're not going to run the entire thing. Right.

00:30:45.619 --> 00:30:48.599
Like it's how do you manage again that effort,

00:30:48.700 --> 00:30:51.819
that pace? And so, you know, I look to even my

00:30:51.819 --> 00:30:55.160
own training and right now I'm training for a

00:30:55.160 --> 00:31:01.369
200 miler and. A lot of my training is take this

00:31:01.369 --> 00:31:04.390
easy uphill. You need to practice using poles.

00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:09.150
Moderate efforts downhill. Okay, reset, go again.

00:31:09.630 --> 00:31:13.630
And the line in there, it's not exact, but it's

00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:16.130
like set the ego aside, right? It's not about

00:31:16.130 --> 00:31:19.930
paces necessarily. It's about being able to stay

00:31:19.930 --> 00:31:22.950
on your feet for four or five hours, finish,

00:31:23.069 --> 00:31:25.970
and then say, oh, I could go do that again. Right.

00:31:26.299 --> 00:31:29.319
Yeah. Finish. Achieve it. Yeah. So quick question.

00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.440
If you're doing a 200 miler, who's pacing the

00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:35.299
pacer for that 200 miler? I have a few people.

00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.900
Clint Carr might actually be out, which would

00:31:38.900 --> 00:31:41.920
be fun. Rucker, he's come to the dark side of

00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.460
running. Oh, has he? A little bit. Don't tell

00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:49.180
him I told you. Everyone knows now. No, he's

00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:52.160
done it all. Then the coach I work with and then

00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.220
maybe another friend. But yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah.

00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:57.980
Well, thanks for sharing that insight into that

00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:00.440
world. It's fascinating. I guess it's, is it

00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.220
ultra season right now? Because I'm certainly

00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.019
seeing a bunch of races, a bunch of highlights.

00:32:04.339 --> 00:32:08.539
Yeah, there's the, what is it? The Grand Slam

00:32:08.539 --> 00:32:11.019
of all the 200s is still going on. There's a

00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:13.140
bunch, the triple crown, like everything's still

00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:16.079
happening. And yeah, I mean, you asked the question,

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.099
like if anyone needs actual ultra running, pacing,

00:32:20.259 --> 00:32:23.880
crewing, it is something that we provide. Over

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.960
at Omni Athlete Training. correct yeah good deal

00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.940
let's get into uh before we wrap up let's talk

00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:33.420
about mistakes um because there are so many mistakes

00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.720
and misconceptions with with pacing first one

00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.400
we already talked about hot start going out way

00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:43.220
too fast and and coming back what uh what's a

00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:45.420
good way to prevent that from happening i guess

00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:48.079
first is recognizing that you do this but what's

00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.359
another way or is there a mental thought maybe

00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:52.299
or how do how do we prevent ourselves from doing

00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:55.660
that I want to think of it like as if you're

00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:58.559
lifting like a barbell or some dumbbells, like

00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.599
take an easy. So let's say most listeners are

00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.539
able to lift a pair of 10 pound dumbbells and

00:33:05.539 --> 00:33:08.960
do curls pretty easily. Right. If not, pick whatever

00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.599
weights in your mind. And so if you start and

00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:13.660
you just start repping those out, those first.

00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:17.089
5, 10 are going to feel super easy. The first

00:33:17.089 --> 00:33:19.809
20, 50 are going to feel easy. But if you keep

00:33:19.809 --> 00:33:22.329
going at that same, try to stay at that same

00:33:22.329 --> 00:33:25.250
pace, like eventually you're going to slow down.

00:33:25.569 --> 00:33:29.210
And so I kind of look at it like that, right?

00:33:29.329 --> 00:33:31.930
It's the same thing. I think we have a hard time

00:33:31.930 --> 00:33:35.930
sometimes translating like why running or rucking

00:33:35.930 --> 00:33:40.970
is harder than it is. And so I think it's just

00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:44.769
like. Like I said, like it should it should almost

00:33:44.769 --> 00:33:49.049
feel it should feel way too easy. That is one

00:33:49.049 --> 00:33:51.529
from the start. And, you know, everyone says

00:33:51.529 --> 00:33:55.089
stick to your race plan. It's hard to do it when

00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:57.509
people start sprinting off the start line, like

00:33:57.509 --> 00:34:01.369
everyone gets caught up in it. And so goes to

00:34:01.369 --> 00:34:04.509
an idea of like the same way we shouldn't let

00:34:04.509 --> 00:34:08.590
our feelings like or are like emotions or feelings

00:34:08.590 --> 00:34:13.489
like dictate if we. train or workout like we

00:34:13.489 --> 00:34:17.730
shouldn't let like the feeling of oh i feel good

00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:22.190
dictate that pace coming out um because you're

00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:25.449
gonna feel good from the start yeah right it

00:34:25.449 --> 00:34:28.989
should feel too conservative it should feel you

00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:30.929
know it's it's the tortoise and the hare story

00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:33.829
absolutely yeah it's it's definitely a mental

00:34:33.829 --> 00:34:37.460
aspect at that point just uh yeah being Being,

00:34:37.460 --> 00:34:40.099
yeah, we're thinking about your training almost.

00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.360
And like you said. And I'm not saying like, I'm

00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.820
not saying like be, be lazy. I'm not saying,

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:50.099
you know, don't try, but you need to follow the

00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.840
plan that you have and you should stay at that

00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.920
very sustainable pace from the start. Gotcha.

00:34:57.739 --> 00:35:00.599
Another mistake. I think we've talked about all

00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.039
these mistakes already, but it's definitely worth

00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.639
talking about again, because it's so prevalent.

00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.219
The no easy day, I guess, aspect of training.

00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:13.760
I know for like marathon running or any long

00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.139
distance event, I think like we just discussed

00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:19.880
just previously, there's like a taper, right?

00:35:20.179 --> 00:35:22.219
I feel like maybe a lot of people don't really

00:35:22.219 --> 00:35:26.820
do that. So, you know, how should someone approach

00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:30.500
like a taper before an event? Yeah, there's definitely

00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.480
like different schools of thought on this. And

00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:36.480
it depends also on the distance. I think before,

00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:40.920
again, Jen with the 100 -miler, her taper was

00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:46.260
probably 10 days or so of very easy efforts.

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:48.900
She was still moving, doing some rucking, some

00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:51.679
running, moving the body, a little bit of very

00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:55.239
light strength training, keeping everything sharp.

00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:00.960
And I think there's this misconception that you're

00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:04.059
going to lose fitness in that. seven ten days

00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:06.079
let's say and you're not and you're not going

00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.840
to gain fitness either if anything like that's

00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:13.159
your you need to give your body that break like

00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.400
keep moving a little bit go for walks things

00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:18.340
of that nature do something specific to your

00:36:18.340 --> 00:36:22.320
race whatever it is and also in that time you're

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.219
doing things like making sure you're sleeping

00:36:25.219 --> 00:36:30.360
you're eating well right we are hydrating um

00:36:31.099 --> 00:36:34.519
taking care of other stuff that if you're traveling

00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:37.239
for this race, right. There's a lot of other

00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:41.559
stressors that can go on and recovering isn't

00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:44.420
just, you know, or like this taper isn't just,

00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:47.579
oh, I'm doing less work. You're doing work in

00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:51.960
other areas too. Um, and so, yeah, I like anything,

00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:56.219
you know, five days, seven days, 10 days. It's

00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:58.380
interesting because I've done different. types

00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.719
of tapers before races for like for myself and

00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:04.900
i think for each person you can kind of feel

00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:07.599
and like get into a groove of what works and

00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:12.760
what doesn't um i i use this example so last

00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:18.960
year i ran a backyard ultra in october and i

00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.659
did a little over 100 miles and then i ran another

00:37:22.659 --> 00:37:26.000
one the first weekend in november so four weeks

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:29.039
apart let's say In that time between, I think

00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:33.320
I ran a total of, I don't know, 20, 30 miles.

00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:39.820
Because it wasn't important to continue to build

00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:42.019
fitness. And I ended up doing 80 -something at

00:37:42.019 --> 00:37:44.380
the second one. There was nothing about building

00:37:44.380 --> 00:37:47.000
fitness. There was nothing else that I would

00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.880
do to make myself fitter for that second race.

00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.659
What was important was recovering my body, moving

00:37:54.659 --> 00:37:57.960
it, continuing just like... going through some

00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.199
of that, but eating food, all of these things,

00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:04.599
because you don't need to rebuild that much,

00:38:04.780 --> 00:38:08.099
right? Like we talked about these 200s. There's

00:38:08.099 --> 00:38:11.139
four 200 milers that people will do, all four

00:38:11.139 --> 00:38:13.940
of them, over basically the span of the summer.

00:38:14.780 --> 00:38:17.820
Like, do you think they're running as much as,

00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:20.320
like, they were before, like, they were training

00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:22.260
for this? No. Oh, goodness. They're spending

00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.179
that time recovering. Unless you're Andy Glaze

00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:27.679
and doing 100 miles a week. Yeah. Power to them.

00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.179
Power to them. Yeah. But, like, think about,

00:38:30.260 --> 00:38:33.039
like, ourselves, right? Like, take that time.

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:37.300
Give your body the break it needs. Recover in

00:38:37.300 --> 00:38:40.119
the ways that you need to. Doing things like

00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:42.340
sleeping. getting back on track with that because

00:38:42.340 --> 00:38:44.719
especially if you're going to do a 24 hour plus

00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.599
event like your sleep's going to be messed up

00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.780
for a bit yeah oh yeah absolutely um there were

00:38:50.780 --> 00:38:52.780
some other misconceptions that we previously

00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:55.199
talked about like obsessing over pace per mile

00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.840
type stuff but are there any that we haven't

00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.380
covered already that you see frequently mistakes

00:39:01.380 --> 00:39:06.579
misconceptions no and i think we we said it earlier

00:39:06.579 --> 00:39:11.300
of just the you know thinking you don't have

00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:15.340
enough time like it there's a we might have said

00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:18.639
this before in the last one but it's you should

00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:21.119
never make a decision when you're tired hungry

00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:24.960
or your heart rate is too high right and so it's

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.099
like okay a decision to quit could be one of

00:39:27.099 --> 00:39:31.480
those but it's also like a decision to you know

00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:35.289
make an adjustment to what I'm doing I think

00:39:35.289 --> 00:39:37.849
is one of those as well. So it's like, you have

00:39:37.849 --> 00:39:40.329
to stop and assess for a split second. Like it's

00:39:40.329 --> 00:39:44.289
okay. Like if you get lost, should you just keep

00:39:44.289 --> 00:39:47.150
going in the direction you're going? No, like

00:39:47.150 --> 00:39:49.309
you have to stop, take a look at your map, like

00:39:49.309 --> 00:39:52.190
assess where you're at and then figure out like

00:39:52.190 --> 00:39:55.210
where to go next. Like if you're going the wrong

00:39:55.210 --> 00:39:57.170
direction and you just keep moving, you're going

00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:59.389
to end up further away. And I think that's what

00:39:59.389 --> 00:40:02.230
can happen with, you know, pace as well as like,

00:40:02.329 --> 00:40:05.670
okay, if I think, This is just the right decision

00:40:05.670 --> 00:40:08.190
because I'm not really sure and I'm not thinking

00:40:08.190 --> 00:40:10.889
about it. I just go like you can always take

00:40:10.889 --> 00:40:13.610
a second to reassess and figure out where you're

00:40:13.610 --> 00:40:16.389
at. That's a great point. Appreciate that, Sam.

00:40:17.809 --> 00:40:20.230
Well, this is a really excellent conversation.

00:40:20.909 --> 00:40:23.789
I was you definitely delivered. You provided

00:40:23.789 --> 00:40:25.989
so much insight into pacing. I'm going to start

00:40:25.989 --> 00:40:28.829
applying this to my own training now. But just

00:40:28.829 --> 00:40:31.429
briefly before we go, if someone's looking to.

00:40:32.250 --> 00:40:35.690
you know, fix their pacing issues or, you know,

00:40:35.690 --> 00:40:38.349
figure out what their baseline or training pace

00:40:38.349 --> 00:40:40.909
should be? What's one thing that you think that

00:40:40.909 --> 00:40:43.929
they should do before their next ruck? Yeah,

00:40:43.949 --> 00:40:46.630
I think the first thing is that you do one of

00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:49.409
those, you know, if you're doing a longer effort,

00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:55.409
like make sure that first hour you are not. exhausting

00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:58.150
your breathing right again the conversation go

00:40:58.150 --> 00:41:01.090
on if bring somebody with you and have a conversation

00:41:01.090 --> 00:41:03.869
the whole time yeah if it's hard you know or

00:41:03.869 --> 00:41:06.510
get on the phone um or sing or something you

00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:09.230
know sing your music um i think that's the thing

00:41:09.230 --> 00:41:11.730
like it's it's not about chasing like a specific

00:41:11.730 --> 00:41:14.829
pace right it's about that effort and keeping

00:41:14.829 --> 00:41:18.159
it at that effort that you can sustain Excellent.

00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:20.239
Thank you for all of that, Sam. Really appreciate

00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.099
it. Thanks again for joining us. And where can

00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:25.380
people reach you if they are looking for some

00:41:25.380 --> 00:41:27.460
pacing help or just training help in general?

00:41:27.860 --> 00:41:30.579
Yeah, for sure. Instagram probably is the best

00:41:30.579 --> 00:41:34.659
spot, samstrap. And then check out Omni Athlete

00:41:34.659 --> 00:41:37.579
Training as well. The website, you can also email

00:41:37.579 --> 00:41:41.280
me, sam at omniathletetraining .com. Awesome.

00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:44.280
Thanks again, Sam. Cool. Thank you. All right.

00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.500
That was my conversation with Sam Svetkovsky.

00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:49.460
I provided links in the show notes to Sam's Instagram

00:41:49.460 --> 00:41:51.380
account if you want to reach out to her and maybe

00:41:51.380 --> 00:41:53.719
seek some guidance or some of her coaching. If

00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:55.440
you found this episode helpful, subscribe to

00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.199
the show so you're notified of new episodes.

00:41:57.579 --> 00:41:59.659
In the next episode, I chat with Jen Tillard,

00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:02.300
one of the athletes that Sam coaches. We talk

00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:04.139
about what it took for her to complete a 100

00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:08.139
-mile ruck in under 36 hours. Okay, that's it

00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:10.219
for today. Thanks for listening to this episode

00:42:10.219 --> 00:42:11.440
of The Rucker's Edge.