Strength vs Endurance: What Actually Improves Rucking Performance

WEBVTT

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If you've been rucking for a while, you've probably

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asked yourself at some point, am I actually training

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the right way to get better at this? Should I

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be doing more miles, more running, more strength

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work, or some combination of these three? Because

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I suspect most ruckers are maybe just winging

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it, putting in extra miles, throwing on weight,

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and just going. But what if we didn't have to

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guess? That's exactly what Rob Shaul and the team

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over at Mountain Tactical Institute set out to

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answer. They ran a series of studies to figure

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out what actually improves rucking performance.

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And today, I'm breaking all that down for you

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so you can train smarter, avoid wasting time,

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and actually get faster under a ruck. You're

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listening to the Rucker's Edge podcast, a show

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all about rucking that is designed to help you

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improve your rucking routine, lose weight, and

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ultimately gain your strength and energy back.

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Each episode dives into the science, stories,

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and strategies behind rucking. You'll learn from

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top ruckers, coaches, health experts, and performance

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specialists. who break down what it takes to

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train smarter, recover faster, and stay ready

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for the next challenge. So whether you're new

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to rucking or an experienced rucker that's logged

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hundreds of miles, this is the show for you.

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I'm your host, Spencer. Thanks for listening

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in. Before we get going, I have two things I

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wanted to say. First, I just want to say thank

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you to everyone who's been reaching out lately.

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I've been getting a lot of messages, emails,

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whatnot. You know, people sharing their stories,

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their progress, how they found the show. And

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honestly, it means a lot. If I haven't responded

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yet, I promise I'm working through responding

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to them. I appreciate your patience as I work

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through my inbox. I really do read each and every

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single one, and I'm trying to respond to each

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and every single one as well. The second thing

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I want to say, if this show has helped you in

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any way, it would be amazing if you could drop

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me a quick review or rating on whatever app you're

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using to listen to me right now. It helps me

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bring new episodes every week, and more importantly,

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more people looking to improve their fitness

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will be able to discover the podcast. So you

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can help someone else start or improve their

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rucking. Thanks so much. Okay, so here's the

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deal. I had Rob Shaul lined up for today's episode.

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As I mentioned before, Rob is the founder and

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president of Mountain Tactical Institute, or

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MTI. And he and his team have done some really

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incredible, interesting work, you know, practical

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rucking research. being done by that team and

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that group. We're going to dig into the Ruck

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Deep Dive study series together, but you know,

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life happens and we had to push that conversation

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to a later date. But honestly, I'm not going

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to let the research sit on the shelf because

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after going through all of it, I think this stuff

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is too good to not talk about right now. There

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are some genuinely interesting findings in here

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that are worth sitting with, even if some of

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them are still early stage. So today I'm doing

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a solo episode. I'm going to walk you through

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the MTI Ruck Deep Dive study series from start

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to finish, what they tested, what they found,

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and what it might mean for how you approach your

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training. I do want to set expectations up front.

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Some of what we're going to be covering today

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is well supported across multiple studies. Some

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of it's early exploratory type of studies and

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findings. And MTI themselves are the very first

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to say, you know, more data might be needed.

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I'm going to be straight with you about which

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is which throughout the episode, because I think

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that's actually more useful than just handing

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you a list of rules. So let's start. So the whole

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Ruck deep dive series started with a pilot study.

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It was a small study, just six guys. MTI calls

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their test subjects lab rats, which I absolutely

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love. But the results were interesting enough

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that they knew they were onto something and wanted

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to keep digging. The question they were trying

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to answer was pretty simple. What physical attributes

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actually matter for wrecking performance? And

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that seems like a question with an obvious answer,

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right? Like, just be in shape. Go run a lot.

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You know, lift weights a lot. But Rob and his

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team wanted to actually test that assumption

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rather than just assume it. So here's what they

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measured. They measured body weight, height,

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front squat, and bench press maxes. Max pull

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-ups and one and a half mile run for time. Then

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two days later, everyone did a 10K ruck. If you

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don't do kilometers, that's about 6 .2 miles.

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And they were carrying 29 kilograms. And again,

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for those of you thinking in pounds, that's around

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64 pounds. And, you know, they chose those measurements,

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10 kilometers and 29 kilograms. based off a 2009

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NATO study that identified it as the average

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fighting load for operations in Afghanistan.

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So they collected all that data, ran correlations,

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and looked at what tracked with who rucked fast

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and who rucked slow. Here's where it gets interesting,

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at least as a starting point. In this group,

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the single variable most highly correlated to

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rucking performance was relative upper body strength.

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Specifically, the bench press relative to body

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weight. Pull -up scheme in second. Then the one

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and a half mile run time. Then relative front

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squat strength. Height and weight didn't show

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a meaningful correlation in this particular group.

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Now I know what some of you are thinking. Bench

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press for rucking? That sounds interesting. But

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here's the explanation they offered in their

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paper. Definitely worth considering. They said

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when you're rucking, especially under a heavy

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load over a distance, you're constantly transferring

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force through your midsection and upper body

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to stabilize that load. So if your upper body

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is weak, the stabilization may break down and

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it could cost you in speed and efficiency over

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X amount of miles. Let's pump the brakes for

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a second because this is important. Again, this

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pilot study was kind of small, only six people

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in it. MTI was very clear that they treated it

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as exploratory, a starting point to generate

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their hypotheses, not a definitive answer. So

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when we move on to the next study, keep in mind

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we're watching MTI try to figure out if this

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upper body strength signal holds up with a much

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bigger group. Because that science is pretty

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good. You find something interesting in a small

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group, and then you go test it properly. Okay,

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so after the pilot study... MTI wanted more data,

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more subjects, more diversity, more confidence

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in what they were seeing in the pilot study.

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So they partnered with the University of Colorado

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out of Colorado Springs and their ROTC program

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to run a proper study. In September 2015, they

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tested 46 ROTC cadets over four days. Day one

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was the Army Physical Fitness Test, a two -minute

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push -up test, two -minute sit -up test. and

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a two -mile run. A couple days later, they tested

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one rep max front squat, one rep max bench press,

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and max pull -ups. Then the next day, the same

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10K ruck at 29 kilograms. This is where the findings

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started to get kind of nuanced, because they

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were able to look at males and females separately,

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and the results were different enough between

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the two groups that you really can't just lump

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everyone together. Let me start with the women.

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For female athletes in this study, rucking performance

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was pretty strongly tied to size, height, and

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weight. A combination of size and aerobic capacity

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are among the strongest predictors of ruck performance

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relative to upper body strength and also correlated

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fairly closely with ruck performance. It's worth

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noting, again, similar to the pilot study, this

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sample of women was small. I think it was four.

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So we want to hold these findings loosely. but

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the pattern was interesting enough to be worth

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paying attention to. One data point that kind

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of tells you how complicated this stuff gets,

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their fastest female ruck performer was actually

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the shortest and lightest athlete in the group.

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So size showed up as a trend in the data, but

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it clearly wasn't riding anyone's destiny, I

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guess you could say. For the men, things were

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more spread out. No single variable dominated

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the picture. The two -mile runtime was the only

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single variable that reached a meaningful predictive

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level on its own, coming in at around 34 % predictive

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power. But here's what was really interesting.

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When they started combining variables, the predictive

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power jumped. For males, a combination of the

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two -mile runtime and sit -ups had a predictive

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strength of 82%. Two -mile runtime and push -ups,

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75%. So for men, it was the combination of aerobic

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capacity and muscular endurance that started

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to paint a fuller picture of ruck performance,

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not a single thing or variable on its own. The

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big takeaway from study number one is that rucking

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performance is genuinely multifactorial. Or is

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it multifactorial? What I'm trying to say is

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no one single variable moves the needle that

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much by itself. It's a combination of things.

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It involves aerobic fitness, strength, muscular

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endurance, and in some groups, body size. The

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mix of what matters most seems to shift depending

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on whether you're a man or a woman. That's not

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a weakness in the research. That's actually just

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helpful or useful information because it tells

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you there's no one -size -fits -all answer. Next

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up, we'll talk about what actually improves your

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ruck in the next study of the series that they

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did. But first, I want to take a quick break

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to say thanks so much again for listening to

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this show. If you're finding this research helpful,

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text it to someone that's starting or a current

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rucking buddy that you have. It might give them

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some insight on how to improve their rucking.

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Alright, back to it. Okay, so now we have some

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picture of what predicts rucking performance.

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The next question, and this is the one that's

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really useful from a training standpoint, is

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what actually makes you better at rucking? So

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Study 2 was designed to answer exactly that.

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MTI took 25 of the ROTC cadets who completed

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both rounds of testing, put them through a six

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-week training program, and then reassessed everything.

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Same tests, same 10K ruck at... 20 kilograms.

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The training program was a mix of heavy barbell

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work, bodyweight strength training, aerobic endurance,

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some work capacity training, and core work. This

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was done five days a week for six weeks. Then

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they looked at which improvements in training

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tracked with improvements in ruck performance.

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Again, let's start with the women because the

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results were a little cleaner. For female athletes,

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three things showed up that were meaningful to

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wrecking improvement. Front squat, so lower body

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strength, two -minute sit -ups as a measure of

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core strength, and the two -mile run time as

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a measure of aerobic endurance. MTI's recommendation

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coming out of this was that females would likely

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benefit from prioritizing lower body strength

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first, with core and aerobic work as secondary

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focuses. I'll say the sample size for women in

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this study was small enough that I treat it as

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a useful starting hypothesis rather than a hard

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rule. But it's a reasonable place to start, and

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it's the direction the data pointed. For the

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men, the picture was a little messier, and I

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actually think that's interesting because it

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suggests that male ruck performance improvements

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are more distributed across a wider range of

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factors. The most statistically significant relationship

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for males was between push -up improvement, so

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upper body muscular endurance, and ruck improvement.

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But that only accounted for about 29 % of the

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variation in scores, so it mattered, but it wasn't

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the whole story. One of the more practically

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useful things they did was break the men into

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high and low performer groups based on where

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they started, so the initial assessment. What

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they found is that where you start matters a

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lot for what you should focus on. This seems

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to be probably the biggest, this is the biggest

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factor that stood out to me when I first read

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this about a year or so ago when I got into rucking.

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or started seriously rucking, but for guys who

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started with lower strength levels, so maybe

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people that started rucking coming in cold, this

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is their entry back into getting into some sort

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of shape or physical fitness. In this case, a

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bench press under about 185 pounds, so improving

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upper body strength and core strength, correlate

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more with ruck improvement. For guys who were

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already strong, I guess, already in shape, have

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been rocking for a while, or have been doing

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some other sort of physical fitness, and they

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were measuring them, there was no single factor

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that had a strong effect. Their improvements

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were a lot more distributed. This led MCI to

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put forward what I think is one of the more compelling

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ideas in the whole series. Again, the concept

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of base strength requirement. The idea is that

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there may be a minimum level of strength you

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need to have before your aerobic capacity can

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fully express itself in a ruck. Below that floor,

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strength gains move the needle. Above it, other

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factors, including aerobic training, become more

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important. Again, MTI is upfront about this.

00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:54.750
It's a hypothesis, not a confirmed threshold.

00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:57.779
They didn't have strong enough athletes in their

00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:00.639
subject pool to define where that ceiling is.

00:14:00.940 --> 00:14:04.340
The 185 pound number is specific to their subjects

00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:06.559
and not necessarily generalized for everyone.

00:14:06.740 --> 00:14:09.279
But as a framework for thinking about your training,

00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.039
you know, where you are right now or what you

00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:14.519
should be focusing on, I think it's genuinely

00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.419
useful. If you feel like you have entered rucking

00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:23.659
with relatively low strength, maybe focus on

00:14:23.659 --> 00:14:25.899
getting your strength up in your upper body before

00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:28.679
moving on to improving your robot capacity that

00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.460
wraps up the the rucking series that mti did

00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:35.279
a few years back before wrapping up today i did

00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.320
want to touch on one more thing or one more study

00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.580
that i thought was interesting for this last

00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:44.480
segment because this one isn't about what training

00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.659
program to run it's it's about what what's actually

00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:50.639
happening to your body during a ruck as fatigue

00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.019
starts to set in. And I think it adds a really

00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:55.799
useful layer to everything that we've talked

00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:58.879
about. And I've mentioned this in the past, but

00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.299
I haven't specifically called out MTI's study

00:15:01.299 --> 00:15:06.159
on this subject. But this study looked at 70

00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.460
male infantrymen from the 82nd Airborne Division.

00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:12.159
There were guys who completed a 7 -plus mile

00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.590
ruck march in full combat gear. Average load

00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:20.250
of about 86 .9 pounds at the end of a 72 -hour

00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:23.009
field training exercise. So these guys weren't

00:15:23.009 --> 00:15:26.789
fresh. They were already pretty depleted. MTI

00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:30.669
outfitted each soldier with wearable motion sensors,

00:15:30.809 --> 00:15:34.590
one on the chest and one on each boot. They collected

00:15:34.590 --> 00:15:36.830
3D movement data throughout the entire march.

00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:39.480
They divided the march into four equal segments

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.559
to track how movement changed from start to finish.

00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.700
Awesome use of technology. Really cool, really

00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:48.120
interesting methodology here. What they found

00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.179
was a clear picture of how fatigue changes the

00:15:50.179 --> 00:15:54.220
way that you move under a ruck. So stride length

00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:57.379
got shorter as the march went on. Stride width

00:15:57.379 --> 00:16:01.139
got wider. Step -to -step consistency, so how

00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:03.720
similar each stride is to the last, decreased.

00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:08.019
And torso sway increased both front to back and

00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:11.379
side to side. So let's think about what each

00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:14.779
of those things mean. Shorter stride length means

00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:20.039
more steps to cover the same distance, more repetitive

00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.480
stress on the same tissues. And over a long ruck,

00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.299
that increases your injury risk in a pretty meaningful

00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:31.399
way. Moving on to wider stride width. That's

00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:32.860
typically a sign that your body is searching

00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:36.220
for a balance under load. Your base of support

00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.460
widens to help keep you upright when your stability

00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.379
is compromised. The next one, more variability.

00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.840
With more variability in your steps, that means

00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.879
your movement is becoming less controlled and

00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.919
consistent. And lastly, the torso sway finding,

00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:56.279
which is really interesting. Average torso lean

00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.059
didn't change much. Your body is still pointing

00:16:59.059 --> 00:17:01.240
in roughly the same direction. Obviously, you're

00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:02.559
going in one direction when you're rocking, but

00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:05.619
the variability of the lean increased, which

00:17:05.619 --> 00:17:08.220
means your trunk is working harder to maintain

00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:10.819
roughly the same position and doing it with less

00:17:10.819 --> 00:17:15.680
precision as fatigue accumulates. So the movement.

00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.880
breakdown that fatigue causes you know shorter

00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.759
steps wider stance less trunk control is consistent

00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.740
with what you'd expect to see from a body that's

00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:28.039
struggling to manage load and that raises a reasonable

00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:30.359
question what kind of training builds resilience

00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:34.000
against those changes so what can you do to to

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.579
to minimize the sway in your torso and the shorter

00:17:37.579 --> 00:17:40.440
steps the wider stance to decrease your chances

00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.859
of injury and staying consistent with your rucking

00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:45.420
Well, building core and upper body stability

00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:48.119
seems like a sensible answer based on the mechanics.

00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.759
Practicing movement under fatigue, not constantly

00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.460
but deliberately, is another. Progressively longer

00:17:54.460 --> 00:17:58.059
rucks and loaded carries over time likely help

00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.079
your body learn to maintain mechanics further

00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.740
into a march. The study also validated that wearable

00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.180
sensors can track these changes in real time

00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:09.500
during actual field conditions, which is pretty

00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:13.059
exciting. development. Again, sucker for technology

00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:16.019
and research, but we're probably not far away

00:18:16.019 --> 00:18:17.759
from those tools that give individual athletes

00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.839
real -time feedback on how their stride and posture

00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.759
are holding up as they fatigue. That's a frontier

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.819
worth watching, I think. Okay, so let's bring

00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:29.799
this all together, because I don't want to walk

00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.579
away with a pile of findings and no way for you

00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:35.779
to take action with all this clutter. Here's

00:18:35.779 --> 00:18:38.140
how I'd summarize the practical direction from

00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:41.509
the MTI ruck deep dive series with appropriate

00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:45.269
caveats where they belong. Number one, rucking

00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:48.750
performance is multifactorial. I think it's factorial.

00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:50.930
You know what? Let me Google this real quick.

00:18:51.630 --> 00:18:54.710
I remember using this word a lot in grad school,

00:18:54.769 --> 00:18:57.130
and I can't remember if it's multifactorial.

00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:02.450
It is. It's multifactorial. Cool. I'll forget

00:19:02.450 --> 00:19:08.710
that tomorrow. Where was I? Oh, yeah. So, rucking

00:19:08.710 --> 00:19:11.410
performance is multifactorial, and that's actually

00:19:11.410 --> 00:19:14.029
good news. Aerobic fitness, strength, muscular

00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:16.289
endurance, they all showed up across these studies

00:19:16.289 --> 00:19:19.289
as being relevant. You know, no single thing

00:19:19.289 --> 00:19:21.369
owns your ruck performance, which means you have

00:19:21.369 --> 00:19:24.269
multiple levers to pull, and training any of

00:19:24.269 --> 00:19:27.490
them well is going to move you forward. So, focus

00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:29.069
on any of them. They're likely going to help

00:19:29.069 --> 00:19:31.869
you out. Two, strength, especially upper body

00:19:31.869 --> 00:19:34.430
strength. It appears to be relevant, though the

00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:37.660
evidence is still building. This showed up in

00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.779
the pilot study and again in study two, particularly

00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:43.420
for lower strength athletes, like I mentioned

00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:46.039
before. MTI's working theory is that you need

00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:48.059
a minimum level of strength to fully realize

00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:50.579
your aerobic potential under load. The exact

00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:52.700
threshold isn't really well defined, but in their

00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:56.440
study, they used under 185 pounds. That's a reasonable

00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.500
sign that strength work deserves more of your

00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:02.609
training time than it might be getting. Number

00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:04.670
three, for men starting from a lower strength

00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.509
base, prioritize strength and upper body muscular

00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:11.150
endurance. The data from study two pointed clearly

00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:13.789
in this direction for guys who began with lower

00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:16.250
strength levels. Once you've built that base,

00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:19.230
aerobic training likely becomes the more impactful

00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:21.809
lever. It's not one or the other. It's sort of

00:20:21.809 --> 00:20:25.190
sequential. And then number four, for women,

00:20:25.269 --> 00:20:27.670
strength, core, and aerobic fitness all seem

00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:30.009
to matter, with lower body strength appearing

00:20:30.009 --> 00:20:33.440
as a useful... starting point and lastly talking

00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.980
about fatigue fatigue changes how you move under

00:20:35.980 --> 00:20:39.220
load in consistent measurable ways they've demonstrated

00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:41.960
that they've proven that with with their their

00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.559
their last study i talked about so building resilience

00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.440
against those changes through strength work progressive

00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:52.859
load exposure and sometimes training when you're

00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:55.539
already a little tired As I mentioned before,

00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.799
I'm looking forward to getting Rob on the show

00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.519
and going a little bit deeper on some of these

00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:02.259
as well as some of the other studies out of MTI.

00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.720
There are threads in this research. I'd love

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.410
to... pull on them with him directly. I'll make

00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:11.490
sure to let you know when that conversation is

00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:13.390
scheduled. In the meantime, I hope this gave

00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:15.630
you something useful to think about, at least,

00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.309
or maybe something to adjust in your training.

00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:21.430
Whether you're a competitive rucker, a military

00:21:21.430 --> 00:21:23.890
athlete, or just someone who wants to get better

00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:26.250
at moving under load, the research is worth understanding,

00:21:26.509 --> 00:21:29.910
for sure. All right. Well, that wraps up today's

00:21:29.910 --> 00:21:32.990
episode. If you're interested in any of these

00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:35.210
studies, I'll link them in the show notes. I'll

00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:40.329
also link where you can check out MTI's website.

00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:43.369
They have several plans that you can explore.

00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:46.349
They offer them to the public if you're interested

00:21:46.349 --> 00:21:49.390
in improving your wrecking or other outdoor sports.

00:21:49.589 --> 00:21:51.269
They have several plans available. Go check them

00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:53.809
out. If you want to reach out to me, head on

00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:56.789
over to theruckersedge .com or on Instagram at

00:21:56.789 --> 00:21:59.609
theruckersedgepod. And if you enjoyed today's

00:21:59.609 --> 00:22:01.609
episode, make sure to follow or subscribe to

00:22:01.609 --> 00:22:03.349
the show in your favorite podcast app so you're

00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:07.430
notified of new episodes. I have a really cool

00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:11.230
episode coming up next. I had the absolute pleasure

00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:14.869
of speaking with Terrence Ogden. You may remember

00:22:14.869 --> 00:22:17.369
if you listened to an episode back in the fall

00:22:17.369 --> 00:22:19.190
where I did sort of like an update or rucking

00:22:19.190 --> 00:22:23.819
in the news sort of. episode he is the gentleman

00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:26.819
that rucked across the state of texas east to

00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:31.039
west and um really cool insight in that conversation

00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:35.339
and uh really amazing story his arc from from

00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:37.779
his past to where he is now definitely worth

00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:41.559
listen but um again that's it for today thanks

00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:43.460
for listening to this episode of the ruckers

00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:45.380
edge and i'll catch you in the next one