The Science Behind Weighted Vests: What Actually Works (with Philip Pape)

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Are you getting everything you can out of your

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weighted vest or ruck plate carrier? Or are a

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few simple mistakes limiting your results? In

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this episode, we separate fact from fiction when

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it comes to weighted vest training. We discuss

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who benefits most from using a weighted vest,

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how it compares to rucking with a rucksack, when

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each is the better choice, common mistakes to

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avoid, and how to use a weighted vest safely

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to improve your fitness without interfering with

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other training. My guest today is Philip Pape.

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Philip is a nutrition coach, fitness educator,

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and host of the Wits and Weights podcast, where

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he helps busy adults build muscle, lose fat,

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and improve their health through evidence -based

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nutrition and training strategies. He's known

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for taking complicated fitness research and turning

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it into practical advice that people can actually

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use. Today, he's joining us to separate fact

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from fiction when it comes to weighted vest and

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rucking. All right, please enjoy my conversation

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with Philip Pape. Philip, thanks so much for

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joining me today here on the Rutgers Edge podcast.

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I've been listening to your podcast a lot recently

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called Wits and Weights. I've gained a lot of

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information from listening to your podcast, specifically

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recently on an episode about what the brain is

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doing when we exercise, which is really cool.

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But really excited to have you here. And one

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of the things I like most about your approach

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to exercise is you kind of approach it with.

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some sort of, I don't want to say skepticism,

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but you're maybe, I don't know how you would

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describe it, but optimistically cautious, which,

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you know, I think serves researchers really well

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to dive into the depths of what real science

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is showing about a particular subject. And I'm

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really curious to see what you have to say about

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rucking, specifically working out with weighted

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vests today. And just really happy to have you

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here, Philip. So welcome again. Man, thanks so

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much for having me on. I mean, I know you're

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only like, what, 20, 30 episodes in, but I thought

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you were a seasoned podcaster when I checked

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you out. And I've actually learned quite a bit

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about rucking from you just listening to your

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show. And that would help me and my clients.

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So, yeah, I really appreciate it. A skeptical

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is definitely the word. I would say science is

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built on asking questions and never knowing what

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we think we know. So if you could ever challenge

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yourself and be open to it. And the other thing

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is anybody that's making a claim with complete

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certainty. I question them immediately because

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it's almost never the case. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Absolutely right. Thanks for the kind words.

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I really appreciate that, Philip. I say we go

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ahead and peel the layers off of your critical

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thinking brain. So when rucking or, you know,

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working out with a weighted vest comes to mind

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or when you first learned about it, I'm curious,

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like, what were some of the first questions that

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you had about it in terms of like its legitimacy?

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The first I heard about weighted vests specifically

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came long after I learned about rucking. So rucking,

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I used to do CrossFit actually for years. So

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I was kind of tied into that world of the military

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side where some of the rucking elements came

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in, as well as working out with a rucksack, which

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is a whole separate beast. But weighted vests,

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I would say in the last year and a half, it became

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kind of a big trend on social media, especially

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women in my audience, because I speak a lot to...

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You know, people over 40 and probably two thirds

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are women. And I don't know why I attract a lot

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of women. It could just be because that's how

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the population shakes out in terms of who's looking

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for this kind of advice. But they'd say, hey,

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should I wear a vest to get stronger? And the

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question is always, what's your goal? Why do

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you ask? What did you hear? What did you read

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online? Right. Yeah. What did you watch? Right.

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Where is this coming from? And, you know, I would

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say almost invariably, at least early on, it

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was like. well, maybe I don't have to lift weights

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or maybe I don't have to, you know, there's this

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new thing. There's this new solution. There's

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this new quick fix. You know, it's kind of like

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the vibration plates for, you know, so you don't

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even have to lift weights. And all of these things

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are tools. And I think they all have benefits.

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Even the vibration plates have benefits, believe

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it or not, for like reversing osteoporosis in

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its own little way. So that's kind of the context

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I heard about it. And immediately when I hear

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that, I'm like, okay, where is this coming from?

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Okay, influencers on social media telling you

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they have their weighted vest. program. You don't

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have to go in the gym. Look how easy it is. It's

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always like, we'll solve this, this, this. So

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you can lose weight without this, this, this

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struggle over here, like without this hard work

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or effort over here. Um, so that's the context

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I learned about it. And honestly, in my opinion,

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weighted vests and rucking, I mean, they're kind

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of have a lot of overlap, just center of gravity

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is a little different and like distribution is

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different. But I kind of treat them a little

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bit interchangeably in my context, even though

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there's different applications out there, I understand.

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Sure. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you say

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that you have seen maybe more women getting interested

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in weighted vests. From what I observed, I think

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I read a handful of studies in preparation for

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our conversation today, and like a majority of

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them. I think the population that they used for

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the study, I think the majority of them were

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women, which is interesting. I'm not sure if

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it was tailored that way or if it just shook

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out that way, but I thought that was kind of

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interesting. But let's go ahead and start talking

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about the science of compounding with working

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out with a weighted vest if you're down. In your

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research, I guess, what did you come across when

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they were talking about physiologically what's

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going on when someone's working out with a weighted

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vest? Did you come across that? Yeah, there are

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quite a few studies on like loaded carries, loading

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your body, and then also studies where people

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literally live their lives wearing a vest. So

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there's all different spectrum of that. We have

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to look at what outcome we're trying to measure.

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So one measure is expenditure, just like how

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many calories you burn, right? That's one thing

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people care about. And from that perspective,

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I think the studies just validate pure linear

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relationship more or less with if you add 10

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% weight to your body, you're going to burn.

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Well, you would think 10 % more, but it's more

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like two -thirds of that. And that's because

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your body is burning calories for other things

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that aren't correlated with your mass, right?

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So if you added, you know, if I as a 180 -pound

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person added like 40 pounds to my back and then

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I go for a walk, whatever I would burn in an

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hour, calories, active calories I'll burn in

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an hour, add about two -thirds of the extra percentage

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to that. So it might be like an extra, say, 20

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calories over a half -hour walk. Right. So that's

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kind of cool. Like that, that's an interesting

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thing because one thing I like to do is save

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time. And so for a lot of my clients and listeners,

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I'm like, okay, you're very busy. I get it. Well,

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if you're going to go for a half hour walk anyway,

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how do we use that half hour more effectively?

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Well, we can walk faster. We can go on an incline.

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We can add weight. And so that's kind of where

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that comes from. There are other studies looking

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at weighted vests and load and muscle and bone

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and connective tissue and all of that. And one

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of them was the INVEST trial. You're aware of

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that one? That's like a big one. JAMA. That was

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last year. So that was like 150 adults, older

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adults. And they lost weight over, they lost

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like 10 % of the body weight over a year. One

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group wore a weighted vest most of the day to

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make up for the weight they lost. And by the

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way, I had someone on my show. She was a diabetes

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expert. She uses this technique with her clients.

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As they lose weight, she adds weighted vest weight

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to make up for it and kind of accelerate the

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process. Yeah, it's kind of interesting, right?

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Yeah. And the vest did not prevent the loss of

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bone. And I think it was hip bones that they

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were measuring. It was no better than the group

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that lost weight without the vest and also then

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the resistance training. group either. So, and

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this is somebody, her name is Kristen Beavers,

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and she had a pilot study where it showed the

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vest might help. And I think a lot of people

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ran with this on social media that showed the

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vest might help for bone loss. And then when

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they actually did the bigger trial, they found

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that it didn't work. And that's, I think, because

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of what you talk about a lot of times on the

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show. Progressive overload. you know, sufficient

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load to challenge your body and actually cause

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your bone density to increase requires added

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weight or reps or difficulty over time. So you're

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going to tap out really quickly with a weighted

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vest. And that's kind of the premise of a lot

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of these studies that have been, you know, the

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end of the day, nothing exciting, but there are

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some unique uses for these things. Yeah, no,

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absolutely. I've sort of come across the same

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ideas that you presented. And it's yeah, it's

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interesting. One of the things that I saw that

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came out of some of the research I read was like

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the and just having conversations with former

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guests on the show. I'm thinking of Mike Smith

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is like you talk about weight loss. That's exactly

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what he was doing to lose weight. He was rucking

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and he pointed out. He liked rucking so much

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or working out with his weighted vest so much

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that like, sure, he was losing weight, but he

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wasn't losing his muscle mass at the same time,

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which is very important to him and should be

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important to everybody trying to drop weight

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that you don't want to lose muscle mass in that

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process. I totally agree with you on that. And,

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you know, a lot of people are, I don't know,

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I have seen recently talk about like compounding

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results. And I think weighted vest works really

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well in this space. What is I don't know if you

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can speak to this. Like, what does that mean

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in terms of like mechanically on our body? Can

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you can you talk to that? I mean, like outside

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of like, yeah, like building muscle, like any

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other like mechanics improvement when you like

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compound, like when you throw a weighted vest

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on to work out? I mean, sure. Yeah, you've got

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stabilization and balance involved. You know,

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a return to mobility, I would say, for people

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who are weaker. I guess I see it as. I put the

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population into a couple of different phases,

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right? There's the population who maybe is recovering

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from injury and needs to get back to full mobility

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where something like this can help. We also have

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the population who's just very sedentary, maybe

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very weak, maybe older, right? And for them,

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it's like a great introductory way to add more

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challenge to their body and to their load, I

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think. People think in terms of like single joints,

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but we should be thinking in terms of movement

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patterns, which again, when we talk about the

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gym would be things like squatting and hinging.

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But with a weighted vest, if you're doing what

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you do anyway, now you're just doing it under

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a little more exertion and load. However, I do

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think there's like, we don't want to use it as

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a substitute. For lifting. And by the way, I

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think I listened to one of your episodes with

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the guy who he does a lot of lifting routines

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while wearing the vest or while wearing a rucksack.

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Right. Which to me, that's still lifting. You're

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making it harder on yourself and you may or may

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not use load. What matters is you're making it

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harder over time. So I think like biomechanically,

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there's nothing wrong with it. And it could be

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helpful like with a weighted vest specifically

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because it's symmetrical. around your body as

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opposed to the rucksack. But I do understand

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like a rucksack can offer more ability to have

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to use your stabilizer muscles, for example.

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Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Talking about

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stabilizer muscles, that's one of the reasons

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you want to start light, almost not too light,

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but you definitely don't want to go hard too

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quickly because that's where you can kind of

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get in trouble. Those stabilizer muscles aren't

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worked out nearly as much as, you know, your

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targeted muscles that you're hitting in the gym.

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They're not strong enough to, well, stabilize

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you while you're going through these different

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motions. And so that's when you can kind of pull

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something or strain something. Have you ever,

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do you work out with a weighted vest? I personally

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don't. I don't do that too much strength training.

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My strength training comes from tossing the rock

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and sandbag around. But are you in the gym working

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out with a weighted vest or anything like that?

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I do not. I do not. I rock. I rock as. more of

00:11:47.669 --> 00:11:50.149
a cardio and conditioning activity, you know,

00:11:50.149 --> 00:11:53.470
than a strength training activity. And, but that's,

00:11:53.470 --> 00:11:55.730
look, I'm dead lifting 435 pounds, right? So

00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:59.570
like, you know, like a vest or a rucksack, it's

00:11:59.570 --> 00:12:02.789
going to have to fit in for me in an efficient

00:12:02.789 --> 00:12:05.429
way. So again, if you're wearing it while doing

00:12:05.429 --> 00:12:07.429
something, that's awesome. And now you've put

00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:09.190
the idea in my head, like, should I try it? But

00:12:09.190 --> 00:12:11.409
most of the people I talk to, again, are women

00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:14.029
who are curious, sometimes men who are like,

00:12:14.049 --> 00:12:17.429
hey, should I go start doing specific routines

00:12:17.429 --> 00:12:19.750
with the weighted vest. And I'm like, well, as

00:12:19.750 --> 00:12:21.889
long as it doesn't take away from the other things

00:12:21.889 --> 00:12:24.049
you're trying to do and you can kind of combine

00:12:24.049 --> 00:12:26.210
it into your week efficiently. So that's why

00:12:26.210 --> 00:12:27.590
for a lot of people, and we can do this toward

00:12:27.590 --> 00:12:29.169
the end of today's episode, we can give some

00:12:29.169 --> 00:12:31.269
different like routines or progressions or whatever

00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:34.330
for folks to, if they just want to progress as

00:12:34.330 --> 00:12:36.210
a walking tool to make their walking harder.

00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:38.789
I would say I'm not the expert on like wearing

00:12:38.789 --> 00:12:41.190
it while working out. And I don't think you need

00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:44.029
to, once you've, once you're like three or four

00:12:44.029 --> 00:12:45.529
weeks into your lifting journey, you're probably.

00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:47.919
be tapped out already. That vest is going to

00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.440
have to be ridiculously heavy, I would think.

00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:54.019
Yeah, yeah. And there are certain, I guess, workouts

00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:57.899
you probably shouldn't. I mean, not an expert

00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:00.000
here, but yeah, based off the research I read,

00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.840
maybe, yeah, like Olympic lifts may not be the

00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:05.320
best idea to also be wearing a weighted vest.

00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:08.580
And also maybe something with, if you're approaching

00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:12.179
it new, maybe not, you know, high rep sort of.

00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.320
So like calisthenics maybe may not be the best

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.360
idea. Well, actually, you know, speaking of that,

00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:21.179
like it depends on how we define calisthenics.

00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.740
But if we think of very effective compound body

00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:27.360
weight exercises like chin -ups or dips or something

00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.559
like that, that's a perfect place I can see using

00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.799
it. Again, you know, depends on how much weight

00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:34.580
you need. Like a bigger guy who's pretty strong

00:13:34.580 --> 00:13:37.019
probably just needs a dip belt hanging a couple

00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:39.360
45s off his waist. You know what I mean? Right.

00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.029
Yeah. that's very unwieldy in other contexts

00:13:42.029 --> 00:13:45.330
so yeah anything anything that involves you know

00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:47.649
decline push -ups really anything in the gym

00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:49.750
where you're kind of doing a bodyweight version

00:13:49.750 --> 00:13:51.950
of it and now you want to add some load i could

00:13:51.950 --> 00:13:57.080
even see um certain loaded ab work too uh for

00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:58.960
that so yeah it's a great question i know i'm

00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:00.220
coming on here i don't know if you brought me

00:14:00.220 --> 00:14:02.639
on thinking i'm an expert in like working out

00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.440
with a weighted vest but i look more into the

00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:06.480
science of should we use it when should we use

00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.759
it and in many cases you don't need to use it

00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.519
yeah yeah agreed um now i was thinking about

00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:16.460
like uh some like common mistakes when changing

00:14:16.460 --> 00:14:19.580
up your like workout routine and we just we hit

00:14:19.580 --> 00:14:23.799
hit on a couple of them but uh i think there's

00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.389
like a um I don't know what it is, but for rucking

00:14:27.389 --> 00:14:30.490
in general, when people start throwing a ruck

00:14:30.490 --> 00:14:33.350
on for the first time, they tend to go too heavy,

00:14:33.409 --> 00:14:35.470
too fast. I kind of alluded to this earlier,

00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:37.809
but I know that like if someone were to start

00:14:37.809 --> 00:14:40.250
adding a weighted vest, probably not the best

00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:43.289
idea to go too heavy, too quickly. You're just

00:14:43.289 --> 00:14:46.789
asking for trouble. Do you have any idea of like

00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:49.549
maybe other potential mistakes or errors that

00:14:49.549 --> 00:14:52.100
people might be? might get themselves into when

00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:54.740
thrown on a weighted vest or putting something

00:14:54.740 --> 00:14:57.980
new into their workout routine. Yeah, for sure.

00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.799
And just to hit on the one you just mentioned,

00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.980
I mean, I think connective tissue is the bottleneck

00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:04.700
for a lot of folks, especially when you're older

00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:06.559
and you've never done it. If you go out with

00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.019
50 pounds on your back and you're not very well

00:15:09.019 --> 00:15:11.419
conditioned for it, and then you walk a ton,

00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:13.440
I mean, you're going to feel it everywhere. You're

00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.039
going to be super sore. That's not the worst

00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.509
thing in the world, right? And novelty always

00:15:17.509 --> 00:15:19.710
brings some soreness. I mean, the first time

00:15:19.710 --> 00:15:21.710
I did it, I felt in my traps. I was like, oh,

00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:23.509
that's interesting. There's something to this,

00:15:23.529 --> 00:15:27.450
right? Yeah. But before your tendons, ligaments,

00:15:27.509 --> 00:15:30.490
bones, muscle are ready, your connective tissue

00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:33.139
starts to take the load. I would treat it just

00:15:33.139 --> 00:15:34.659
like lifting weights. People always ask, what

00:15:34.659 --> 00:15:36.259
do I, how much do I lift for my first session?

00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.320
It's like, you need to warm up, find the place

00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:40.940
where it's relatively easy to do like 15 or 20

00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:43.860
reps, go a little heavier than that. And if your

00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:45.779
target rep range is eight to 12, that's probably

00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.159
a good starting point for your first set. And

00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.360
it's going to look super like super light compared

00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:51.960
to the next guy in the gym, but you're not comparing

00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:53.960
to the next guy or gal comparing to yourself.

00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.519
So that's the same thing with, with rucking or

00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.490
weighted vests is just start at. a little bit

00:15:59.490 --> 00:16:01.129
more, you know, 5 % more of your body weight.

00:16:01.750 --> 00:16:03.730
So that is one I just wanted to mention. But

00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:06.090
thinking that like heavier is always better,

00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:08.529
I think there's multiple variables involved.

00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:12.250
So if we're talking walking, for example, you

00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:14.809
have your incline, you have your speed, and then

00:16:14.809 --> 00:16:16.730
you have your weight. And some people might find

00:16:16.730 --> 00:16:19.490
that a good moderate weight is better than a

00:16:19.490 --> 00:16:21.090
heavier weight because a heavier weight just,

00:16:21.169 --> 00:16:23.529
it like wins you and it throws you off and it

00:16:23.529 --> 00:16:25.289
puts you in a bad, you know, position sometimes

00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:28.029
on your walks. And on a steep incline, it could

00:16:28.029 --> 00:16:31.409
actually make it kind of, it could screw up your

00:16:31.409 --> 00:16:33.029
biomechanics a little. I've seen when people

00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:35.549
go too heavy on an incline. So that's another

00:16:35.549 --> 00:16:40.450
mistake. I would say the only other one would

00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:42.450
be like expecting it to replace lifting weights,

00:16:42.509 --> 00:16:44.570
honestly, or to fix your bones or anything. Like,

00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:46.909
I think that's a really important message that

00:16:46.909 --> 00:16:50.970
you still need to have resistance training involved

00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:53.429
somehow, even if you are incorporating the vest

00:16:53.429 --> 00:16:57.110
or the rucksack. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And

00:16:57.110 --> 00:17:00.950
when you're talking about adding, you know, the

00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:02.929
things to your workouts to make it more difficult,

00:17:03.029 --> 00:17:06.470
like walking, using an incline. I know when I

00:17:06.470 --> 00:17:09.150
first started rucking and I had the rucksack

00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:10.750
on, I was like, yeah, I'm start doing some like

00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:13.339
hill repeats or something like that. Talking

00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:15.460
about biomechanics, man, you need to, you need

00:17:15.460 --> 00:17:19.319
the right kind of form to do that. I was, I was

00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:21.380
a mess. I wasn't, I wasn't balanced. Where'd

00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:22.920
you get, where'd you get shin splints or where'd

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:24.960
you get the pain? Oh, I just, I have historic

00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:27.619
ankle issues. So my ankle was flared up and I

00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:30.500
tweaked my knee a little bit and my quads were

00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:32.599
insane. Yeah, it was, it was just like coming

00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:34.819
downhill on a hike with the roots and everything.

00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:36.380
And now you've got this big thing pushing you.

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.359
I think of the video game. What's the video game

00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:40.079
that where the guy carries the thing on his back?

00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.680
You know what I'm talking about? Guys. are into

00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.819
gaming this guy he's important he has to like

00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:47.299
transfer he carries like huge stacks of stuff

00:17:47.299 --> 00:17:50.680
on his back you know i i'm not a gamer i i'm

00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:52.740
thinking of organ trail that is definitely not

00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:57.339
i don't know i i can't i can't help you there

00:17:57.339 --> 00:17:59.960
philip but uh yeah you gotta have the right form

00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.700
if you don't it's you're you're you're asking

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:06.940
for trouble um i i know that you have a uh a

00:18:06.940 --> 00:18:10.119
i guess would you call it a nutrition um service

00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:13.119
or nutrition coaching program How would you describe

00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.460
that? Yeah, I'm a nutrition coach. So everything

00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:17.880
that I do is really, I guess, holistic is what

00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.440
you say. It's integrated between nutrition and

00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.559
training. So when it comes to working out with

00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:25.660
additional load, obviously your bodies, well,

00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.660
we talked about the weight loss factor with,

00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.440
you know, burning more calories. If someone didn't

00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.740
want to burn calories while working out with

00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:37.220
a weighted vest, it's for weight loss. They're

00:18:37.220 --> 00:18:40.000
trying to put on muscle. Any tips you would provide

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.599
to them to kind of... help them out? I mean,

00:18:42.619 --> 00:18:45.980
is it just eat more calories or change what you're

00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:48.619
eating? This is a whole separate topic, but it

00:18:48.619 --> 00:18:52.259
is. Yeah. We need to unpack that statement of

00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:55.119
they don't want to wear a vest to burn calories

00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.160
and lose weight. So just to be clear, like I

00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.079
think of this, there's this term energy flux,

00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.359
right? Which is the idea of moving more and eating

00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.890
more because the world is stuck in a. eat less,

00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:10.490
move more mentality. The thought being that I

00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:12.410
need to starve myself. I need to move a lot to

00:19:12.410 --> 00:19:15.049
lose weight. Even when you're not trying to lose

00:19:15.049 --> 00:19:16.930
weight though, we all want to eat a healthy amount.

00:19:17.109 --> 00:19:18.730
We want to feel our bodies. We want to feel good.

00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:21.410
We want to perform, right? So what's interesting

00:19:21.410 --> 00:19:23.809
about the body is the more you are active. So

00:19:23.809 --> 00:19:25.569
this is a combination of yes, lifting weights,

00:19:25.670 --> 00:19:27.670
which is its own unique signal to your muscles

00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.250
and to your bones, but also being active throughout

00:19:30.250 --> 00:19:32.250
the day and not sitting too long. Not sitting

00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:35.130
too long is an independent risk factor. right

00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:37.349
so sitting too long as a mortality risk factor

00:19:37.349 --> 00:19:39.809
in and of itself once you kind of have all that

00:19:39.809 --> 00:19:42.130
going that's part of your total expenditure you

00:19:42.130 --> 00:19:43.769
now have this this higher metabolic capacity

00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:46.349
right which allows you to eat more eat more carbs

00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:49.849
better utilize glucose um and just kind of enjoy

00:19:49.849 --> 00:19:52.190
life more in my opinion right for your lifestyle

00:19:52.190 --> 00:19:56.809
so having said all that like to me the weighted

00:19:56.809 --> 00:20:00.990
vest thing um for a lot of my clients at least,

00:20:01.049 --> 00:20:03.609
it will be an add -on as part of their cardio

00:20:03.609 --> 00:20:07.569
and conditioning so that they can eat more and

00:20:07.569 --> 00:20:09.150
they can have a higher metabolic rate and they

00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:11.670
can have a more flexible lifestyle, right? It's

00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:14.170
kind of the thought there. Also, a lot of people

00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:15.809
as they get older, because they've experienced

00:20:15.809 --> 00:20:19.349
muscle loss and they're more sedentary and also

00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:21.430
more stressed, they tend to burn fewer calories

00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:23.269
in general too. So we try to bump that up as

00:20:23.269 --> 00:20:25.750
well. So just to put that on the side. Your question

00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:27.920
though was about Getting strong and building

00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:33.000
muscle, right? Yeah. Okay. So I think personally,

00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:35.619
like a weighted vest doesn't even have to be

00:20:35.619 --> 00:20:37.839
in the picture when you start. Like I have a

00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.079
hierarchy. It's like let's get in the gym three

00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.279
days a week for 45 minutes doing compound lifts,

00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:45.740
barbells, machines, I don't care, and just start

00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:47.720
there because that's going to get you like 80%.

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.839
You know, that's going to get you 80 % for your

00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.259
muscle, bone, connective tissue, and conditioning,

00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.799
believe it or not, your cardio health. Then the

00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.200
walking comes in. Well, now once the walking's

00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.579
in, you have all these variables that you can

00:20:58.579 --> 00:21:00.619
toggle. And I personally have been wearing a

00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:02.740
rucksack lately, inspired by you too, because

00:21:02.740 --> 00:21:04.660
I have one. It's like always loaded and I forget

00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:07.339
to take it sometimes. So I added a reminder to

00:21:07.339 --> 00:21:09.440
my phone the other day, like throw on the rucksack

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.180
when I go for a walk. Like I encourage people

00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:12.539
to do stuff like that because you're going to

00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:15.940
forget. And when you do that, you know, now you're

00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:20.920
supporting your lifting because. you're not doing

00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:22.920
running, for example, or something that's higher

00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.140
impact on your joints or lower recovery or something

00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.279
that causes muscle breakdown that kind of counteracts

00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.400
the adaptation from your lifting, right? So I

00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:36.460
think the weighted vest is a nice bridge from...

00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:41.029
Walking to higher level conditioning that supports

00:21:41.029 --> 00:21:42.990
recovery, supports lifting, supports calories,

00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:45.329
supports food. Now you can eat more. Now you

00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:46.769
can lift more. Now you can train harder. You

00:21:46.769 --> 00:21:48.650
get what I'm saying? It's like a virtuous cycle.

00:21:49.049 --> 00:21:52.369
So it's as simple as that. The wearing the weighted

00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:55.049
vest while doing weights, that's fine. I'm not

00:21:55.049 --> 00:21:56.730
here to really promote that big time because

00:21:56.730 --> 00:22:00.369
it's an extra, it's just an extra variation on

00:22:00.369 --> 00:22:03.950
a lift, let's call it. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah,

00:22:04.829 --> 00:22:06.670
it does. It does. Thank you for that. I tend

00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:10.549
to ramble sometimes. So no, but yeah, exactly.

00:22:11.549 --> 00:22:15.250
You're natural. More with Philip in just a moment,

00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:17.470
including his recommendation on how to incorporate

00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:19.869
weighted vests or rec plate carriers into your

00:22:19.869 --> 00:22:22.529
workouts. But first, do you know anyone that

00:22:22.529 --> 00:22:25.109
just started wearing a weighted vest or mentioned

00:22:25.109 --> 00:22:27.480
that they're thinking about getting one? If so,

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:29.740
please text this episode to them. It might help

00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:31.940
them learn how to optimize their workouts with

00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:33.920
a weighted vest. And it also helps the show to

00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:41.039
grow. Thanks. Okay, back to it. So you hit on

00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.519
a few different workouts. I'm curious if you

00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.000
have an opinion on if someone just picked up

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.740
a weighted vest and they're curious about maybe

00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:52.319
starting to train with it. Do you have any recommendations

00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.779
on some sort of like how they can implement that

00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:57.269
into a workout routine? Yeah, I would say if

00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:01.450
you're a beginner or you're older or you're deconditioned

00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:04.549
or whatever, incorporate it into your walking

00:23:04.549 --> 00:23:06.730
first, right? Because that's going to give you

00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:08.450
tons of benefit for what we talked about with

00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:11.829
stabilization, with load, with expenditure. And

00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:14.589
just like in the gym with progressive overload

00:23:14.589 --> 00:23:16.730
with weights, which if you don't know what that

00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:19.359
means, if you're listening, just means. adding

00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:21.400
a little challenge every time you do that same

00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.180
lift in the gym. So that could be adding five

00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:26.059
weight, five pounds, adding an extra rep and

00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:27.880
just pushing yourself because what the body will

00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.349
do is it will recruit. some of those hormones

00:23:32.349 --> 00:23:34.710
and some of those myokines to your muscles. And

00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:36.670
as you sleep, your muscles are going to get a

00:23:36.670 --> 00:23:38.650
little bigger. You're going to draw in some satellite

00:23:38.650 --> 00:23:40.869
cells, all this fun biological stuff that happens

00:23:40.869 --> 00:23:42.829
because your body's like, hey, I'm not strong

00:23:42.829 --> 00:23:45.450
enough and big enough to do this. Next time you

00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:47.430
go to the gym two days later, I'm going to push

00:23:47.430 --> 00:23:49.509
it again to the limit and we get stronger and

00:23:49.509 --> 00:23:51.769
stronger. So with walking, you can do the same

00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:53.789
thing. You know, start with flat walking. If

00:23:53.789 --> 00:23:55.549
you're not walking already 7 ,000 to 10 ,000

00:23:55.549 --> 00:23:58.390
steps without a vest, like you got to start there.

00:23:58.930 --> 00:24:01.250
In my opinion, you know, you try to go too much

00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:04.690
too fast, you'll just, the all or nothing psychology

00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:07.170
takes effect and you're like, okay, this is too

00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:10.329
hard. And then I would add the, you know, say

00:24:10.329 --> 00:24:12.509
weeks three to four. It doesn't take long. Conditioning

00:24:12.509 --> 00:24:16.309
comes on and gets lost super fast. Like conditioning

00:24:16.309 --> 00:24:18.829
changes within days. I don't know if people are

00:24:18.829 --> 00:24:23.410
aware. Whereas muscle and strength happen over

00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:25.630
a longer period, right? So conditioning happens

00:24:25.630 --> 00:24:29.509
within days. So add 5 % of your body weight.

00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:31.970
So I guess that means if you're, let's do math,

00:24:32.170 --> 00:24:34.190
150 pounds, that would be like 5 to 10 pounds,

00:24:34.309 --> 00:24:38.630
right? And keep it flat. And then now you can,

00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:40.609
over the next few weeks, keep that weight but

00:24:40.609 --> 00:24:42.410
add an incline if that's possible or if you're

00:24:42.410 --> 00:24:44.250
doing it on a treadmill or if you have hills

00:24:44.250 --> 00:24:46.410
outside. Otherwise, just add weight again and

00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:48.849
then build toward 10%. That's as simple as that.

00:24:48.890 --> 00:24:51.509
Keep a log. And then there are other variables

00:24:51.509 --> 00:24:54.069
you can manipulate like speed. Speed is big.

00:24:54.109 --> 00:24:55.990
I know you're big on that. I know you've talked

00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:59.630
about that on the show. Speed is, so it's interesting,

00:24:59.750 --> 00:25:03.869
Spencer, there's work by Herman Ponser on metabolism

00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.890
and the effect of energy usage based on speed

00:25:08.890 --> 00:25:11.950
for different modalities of cardio. And when

00:25:11.950 --> 00:25:15.250
you look at running, running does not change

00:25:15.250 --> 00:25:18.750
based on how fast you go. And that's because

00:25:18.750 --> 00:25:23.049
you're leaving the earth. And so how do I explain

00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:24.910
it? Like you're effectively getting the same

00:25:24.910 --> 00:25:26.990
work done. You're just getting it done faster,

00:25:27.130 --> 00:25:30.250
right? With walking, the faster you go, the more

00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.470
you're actually working per distance. So you

00:25:33.470 --> 00:25:36.049
can cover the same distance faster and now actually

00:25:36.049 --> 00:25:38.529
get a little more energy usage out of that. So

00:25:38.529 --> 00:25:39.990
now that's another variable. I don't know if

00:25:39.990 --> 00:25:41.369
people were aware of that. It's kind of a cool

00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:43.930
thing. So just walking faster is a great idea.

00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:46.910
So on that point, so it's like, yeah, the work.

00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:50.119
being done is your body pushing off and then

00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.740
catching the ground again. So do I have that

00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:56.420
correct? Exactly. When you run. So it's, it's

00:25:56.420 --> 00:26:00.119
equivalent no matter how fast you go. Yeah. Obviously

00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:01.720
your heart rate can go higher. So there's actually

00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:03.819
other variables at play, but it's not much of

00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:06.779
a difference. It's like a tiny curve up. Whereas

00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:09.200
walking, it's like this big curve up going from

00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.359
two to three to four miles an hour is, is a massive

00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:14.779
difference to how your body experiences the effort.

00:26:15.350 --> 00:26:18.289
Cool. I mean, it makes sense. I've never really

00:26:18.289 --> 00:26:21.130
put the mechanics together and what it's doing

00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:22.829
there. Yeah. Cool. I know. It's really neat.

00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:25.329
I'm sorry to cut you off. I don't know. I don't

00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:27.769
know. That was for like a beginner. Now, if you're

00:26:27.769 --> 00:26:29.730
already active, I think this is where like we

00:26:29.730 --> 00:26:31.230
get into your world. Like, first of all, make

00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:33.369
sure you're following Spencer's podcast, guys.

00:26:33.410 --> 00:26:35.210
Like if you haven't hit follow in your app, do

00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:37.809
that now and check out his episodes because you'll

00:26:37.809 --> 00:26:40.750
get the specifics on. And he didn't pay me to

00:26:40.750 --> 00:26:42.890
say this, by the way, but like you'll get specifics

00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:45.920
on. The different ways to challenge yourself

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.400
with rucksacks from like actually doing workouts,

00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:51.880
including if you're an outdoorsman or somebody

00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:54.299
just loves the outdoors and doing all the sandbag

00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:56.619
stuff and all the hill stuff and all that. But

00:26:56.619 --> 00:26:59.220
also just thinking of it as your cardio bridge

00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:01.140
again. So now you're getting into, okay, what

00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:03.680
else do I do that's more exerting with the weighted

00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.789
vest? If you get on a stationary bike and wear

00:27:06.789 --> 00:27:08.329
a vest, it's probably not going to be that effective

00:27:08.329 --> 00:27:10.730
because you're just sitting on the bike. Right.

00:27:10.789 --> 00:27:14.069
So it's more about the walking and the, you know,

00:27:14.069 --> 00:27:15.910
the incline and the weight. I wouldn't, I don't

00:27:15.910 --> 00:27:18.710
know about you, like running and sprinting. That's

00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:20.410
a whole separate world that I think is pretty

00:27:20.410 --> 00:27:22.430
awesome for people who are into it. I would just

00:27:22.430 --> 00:27:25.069
say, like, be really serious about your footwear

00:27:25.069 --> 00:27:29.150
and about your gait. Yeah. Yeah. Biggest source

00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:30.890
of injury in the world is running and soccer.

00:27:31.049 --> 00:27:33.859
Like those two are way up there. The torn ACLs

00:27:33.859 --> 00:27:36.119
left and right. Yeah, you got to have the right,

00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:37.619
you got to be able to run on the balls of your

00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:41.079
feet, have the right footwear. And it's maybe

00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.559
1 % of people can do it right. I've had, I had

00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.160
a running coach on recently and we discussed,

00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.819
you know, the importance of, not the importance,

00:27:50.859 --> 00:27:53.240
but like how beneficial rucking can be for runners,

00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.000
like why runners should be rucking. And I think

00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.839
she hit the nail on the head. She was like, I

00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.279
don't recommend running with a ruck. You're asking

00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.799
for a lot of problems if you're doing that. And

00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:05.599
yeah, I mean, it makes sense. And there's like,

00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:07.680
if you do want to move fast with a ruck, you

00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.099
definitely need to keep your center of gravity

00:28:10.099 --> 00:28:12.279
pretty much stationary. You don't want to be,

00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.200
you know, jumping with it and moving that load

00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:15.759
across. You kind of want to be shuffling and

00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.660
not dragging your feet, but not picking your

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:19.200
feet all the way up like you would if you're

00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.559
like, you know, jumping over a log or something

00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.440
like that or running distance. So you want that

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.160
shuffle. But yeah. Excellent point there, Philip.

00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.220
You know, I also wanted to ask you because I,

00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:34.519
when progressing, any thoughts on how quickly

00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.039
someone should progress? I've hit on this previously

00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.039
on the podcast, basically almost letting, my

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.579
take is letting your body almost feel like the

00:28:43.579 --> 00:28:46.240
workout's just easier to do. So then that's when

00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.579
you know, but any other scientific research done

00:28:49.579 --> 00:28:53.650
about how quickly to progress? I think it's fairly

00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:59.150
equivalent to when you're lifting weights. So

00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:01.930
I think where people go wrong on progression

00:29:01.930 --> 00:29:05.990
is not stimulating themselves enough with the

00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:08.549
additional challenge early enough. Now, you mentioned

00:29:08.549 --> 00:29:10.930
a comment about preserving muscle. I think if

00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:13.950
you literally lifted and rocked and like use

00:29:13.950 --> 00:29:17.859
your body the way you use it today. you're more

00:29:17.859 --> 00:29:20.420
or less, assuming you do use resistance training

00:29:20.420 --> 00:29:23.099
and rucking, you'll probably roughly maintain

00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:27.019
your muscle mass for a decent while, right? Yeah,

00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.039
probably for a long while, depending on hormonal

00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.579
situation and when you get older and stuff like

00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.859
that. So it's not like you're going to get detrained

00:29:33.859 --> 00:29:37.480
or it's like bad for you. But I think when you

00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:39.980
lift weights or when you ruck, log what you're

00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:42.339
doing and log the key variables. So the key variables

00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.160
would be the weight, the distance, and the time,

00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:48.740
which gives you the speed, right? And then the

00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:50.440
frequency is going to be important here because

00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.160
we know the body adapts, but then it de -adapts.

00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:56.000
And so you need to give it that stimulus on a

00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.460
frequent enough basis. So it depends on how frequently

00:29:58.460 --> 00:30:00.460
you're rocking. Yeah. So if you're going to go

00:30:00.460 --> 00:30:03.920
twice a week versus every day, then I would say

00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.680
almost every time you go, you can try to challenge

00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:08.359
yourself a little more. You should, because otherwise

00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:09.839
you might get detrained and you're just going

00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.019
to stay flat. If you're going every day. I would

00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:14.220
say there's going to be a lot more. You're going

00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:15.539
to get more in tune with your body probably.

00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:17.559
And you're going to be more adapted to it. And

00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:19.859
then you can slowly, you know, maybe the next

00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:21.619
day you do the exact same thing, but a little

00:30:21.619 --> 00:30:23.819
faster. Then the day after that, maybe you add

00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:26.079
a tiny bit of weight. Then you leave the weight

00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:27.519
and do it faster. You get what I'm saying? You

00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.720
play with each variable one at a time. There's

00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.900
no right way to do it. But like in the gym, I

00:30:32.900 --> 00:30:36.319
don't think, hey, is my body ready? I think,

00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.000
hey, last time I successfully lifted this. So

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.069
today I'm going to lift more. Right. Obviously,

00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:44.490
that's kind of my mentality. Yeah. Not waiting

00:30:44.490 --> 00:30:47.230
for it. Now, if you're in a deficit, like a calorie

00:30:47.230 --> 00:30:49.470
deficit, you're dieting, your sleep is terrible,

00:30:49.529 --> 00:30:52.250
like some other recovery variables off. Well,

00:30:52.309 --> 00:30:55.329
then that's like a notch against that. Right.

00:30:55.430 --> 00:30:56.910
Because it's going to it's going to give you

00:30:56.910 --> 00:30:59.109
a lower capacity to do it. But you might surprise

00:30:59.109 --> 00:31:02.230
yourself. Yeah. Interesting. So, yeah, it basically

00:31:02.230 --> 00:31:05.789
depends on where you are when you start. rucking

00:31:05.789 --> 00:31:08.009
so or yeah where you are with rucking in general

00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:10.230
whether you're a starter versus you've been doing

00:31:10.230 --> 00:31:13.170
it for x amount of you know weeks months what

00:31:13.170 --> 00:31:15.109
have you and what your body can handle yeah and

00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:17.809
also your your plates and stuff like unless you

00:31:17.809 --> 00:31:19.750
have a bunch of granular plates like we run into

00:31:19.750 --> 00:31:22.089
this issue in the gym with dumbbells and barbells

00:31:22.089 --> 00:31:24.609
a new person i always forget they'll say how

00:31:24.609 --> 00:31:26.609
do i how do i go up only five or ten percent

00:31:26.609 --> 00:31:29.210
of my dumbbells when they jump by say five or

00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:30.990
ten pounds and they're at these lightweight oh

00:31:30.990 --> 00:31:34.369
okay you gotta use microplates yeah or or if

00:31:34.369 --> 00:31:35.859
you just can't do that you have to just increase

00:31:35.859 --> 00:31:38.000
the reps yeah so just like with your vest if

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.019
you have a 10 pound plate and then a 40 pound

00:31:41.019 --> 00:31:42.660
plate or something i'm just you know hypothetical

00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:45.140
what are you going to do you're going to go from

00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:47.339
10 to 50 no you either have to get some more

00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:49.700
like two pounds five pounds plates or whatever

00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:53.940
or change the other variables until that all

00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:57.299
catches up and the overall like tonnage or volume

00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.200
matches that you can push the weight up now you

00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.140
know we call that double progression okay Yeah.

00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.599
In the rucking world, we're pretty creative people.

00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:07.980
So we can figure out how to add some weight.

00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:09.059
Yeah, you can get rocks, you can get something

00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:11.339
from the house, a can of soup, whatever. Yeah.

00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:15.619
Yeah. Phillip, I see we've hit on all of our

00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:17.940
topics that we wanted to hit today. I've had

00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:19.339
a lot of fun. I really appreciate you coming

00:32:19.339 --> 00:32:21.019
on. This has been great, Phillip. But before

00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:26.240
we go, who is the, I guess, target client for

00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:29.119
Fitness Lab? Who do you serve the most and who

00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:31.829
is it the most beneficial for? Anybody who wants

00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:34.170
to build muscle and lose fat who doesn't have

00:32:34.170 --> 00:32:37.390
a lot of time, I cater to the over 40 crowd.

00:32:37.490 --> 00:32:39.849
But like, honestly, anybody could benefit. So

00:32:39.849 --> 00:32:41.630
Fitness Lab, thank you for bringing it up. It's

00:32:41.630 --> 00:32:44.769
actually an AI based app, but I've highly trained

00:32:44.769 --> 00:32:48.680
it. So it's not just. You know, it's not just

00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.460
what am I trying to say, renegade, like chat

00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:53.059
GPT pulling from whatever source. I actually

00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:55.240
trained it with my podcast and I trained it with

00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.619
a ton of evidence, like actual sources of evidence.

00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:00.559
So what happens is it adapts to you and gives

00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.079
you a training program and it gives you analysis

00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:05.660
of your eating. And then it will, depending on

00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:08.579
what you need, give you activities for like stress

00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:11.700
reduction or cardio or walking or whatever. It's

00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:13.420
super, super adaptable. You can chat with it,

00:33:13.460 --> 00:33:15.460
all that fun stuff. So anybody who's really trying

00:33:15.460 --> 00:33:17.480
to improve their body, body composition through

00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:19.660
a variety of ways with their fitness and nutrition.

00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.240
Awesome. And then I mentioned your podcast earlier

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.720
in this episode, Wit and Weights. Do you have

00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.859
any specific episodes that kind of popped into

00:33:29.859 --> 00:33:31.339
your head while we were talking today that you

00:33:31.339 --> 00:33:33.339
might be able to recommend to the audience here?

00:33:33.579 --> 00:33:36.160
You know, I should have, I should have come up

00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.460
with a specific list because I have so many episodes.

00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.920
So I don't, so let's see, I don't have any specifically

00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.309
about rucking. I might have one on weighted vests.

00:33:46.309 --> 00:33:48.670
But honestly, I would point people to some of

00:33:48.670 --> 00:33:50.650
the more recent episodes. You actually mentioned

00:33:50.650 --> 00:33:53.250
one, brain aging and barbells. Yes. I think that's

00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:55.670
a good one as an introduction to like why is

00:33:55.670 --> 00:33:58.230
lifting in general, resistance training in general,

00:33:58.250 --> 00:33:59.809
whether you're doing it with a ruck or weighted

00:33:59.809 --> 00:34:03.170
vest or weights, so, so important cognitively.

00:34:03.170 --> 00:34:05.410
Yeah. Because there's so much great science now

00:34:05.410 --> 00:34:09.230
showing us that muscle has a unique benefit for

00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:12.590
physical health. And mental health and metabolic

00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:15.030
health. Yeah. Right. And it just moves the needle

00:34:15.030 --> 00:34:17.730
so much. So that's episode 474 that just came

00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:19.909
out. And then the one right before that from

00:34:19.909 --> 00:34:22.829
a nutrition side, 473 is the satiety diet. And

00:34:22.829 --> 00:34:25.440
it's all about. what I think is the most important

00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.579
thing that allows people to stick to their nutrition.

00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:29.739
And that is, does it satisfy you? Does it keep

00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:31.780
you full? Does it help you manage your hunger?

00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:34.139
And I think that gets rid of all the noise of

00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.699
like, what should I eat? And like, should I cut

00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:38.599
this or that? No, let's not think in terms of

00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:40.300
restriction. Let's think in terms of satisfaction

00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:42.920
and adding in what we need and want. So I would

00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:46.019
start there, 474 and 473. Cool. Yeah. Thanks

00:34:46.019 --> 00:34:48.900
for that. And just to touch on the episode we

00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:51.960
were talking about before, it's It's mind blowing

00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:56.900
the the impacts that muscle growth or gain can

00:34:56.900 --> 00:34:59.300
have on our cognition. That's something I never

00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:01.460
would have connected, never really thought about.

00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:03.159
But that was really fascinating. It was a good

00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:06.219
lesson. I highly recommend that out. Because

00:35:06.219 --> 00:35:08.860
your comment earlier about like science and skepticism.

00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:11.360
I'm a science communicator, I guess you'd call

00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:13.900
me. But I. I don't have a degree in nutrition

00:35:13.900 --> 00:35:15.940
science. Like I have a PhD, but it's in leadership

00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:18.659
and management. So, you know, I learned to read

00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:21.079
papers doing that and how to do research. But

00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.300
be open to the fact that you don't know what

00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:26.239
you don't know. And there's new stuff that comes

00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.239
up. But also be aware of the sources. There's

00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.400
like, you know, you just have to put it all together

00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.760
and find who you trust. And then at the end of

00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:35.679
the day, try things for yourself as well. Great.

00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:38.039
Well, Philip, if someone wanted to reach out

00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.639
to you or check out Fitness Lab, where should

00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.869
they go? Check out my podcast. Go to witsandweights

00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.530
.com, Fitness Lab, specifically witsandweights

00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:49.329
.com slash app. And you can find all my stuff.

00:35:49.409 --> 00:35:50.590
You can reach out to me and then check out the

00:35:50.590 --> 00:35:53.309
podcast, of course. Awesome. Well, Philip, again,

00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:54.909
can't thank you enough. Thanks for being here.

00:35:54.969 --> 00:35:56.670
Appreciate your insights. It's been awesome,

00:35:56.730 --> 00:35:58.389
Spencer. Keep doing what you're doing, man. I'll

00:35:58.389 --> 00:35:59.750
keep listening and learning from you as well.

00:36:00.550 --> 00:36:02.570
All right. That wraps up my conversation with

00:36:02.570 --> 00:36:05.170
Philip Pape. I included a link to Philip's podcast,

00:36:05.550 --> 00:36:08.210
Wits and Weights, into the show notes, specifically

00:36:08.210 --> 00:36:10.289
links for the two episodes he mentioned during

00:36:10.289 --> 00:36:12.769
our conversation. If you enjoyed today's episode,

00:36:12.929 --> 00:36:14.949
make sure to follow or subscribe to the show

00:36:14.949 --> 00:36:17.090
in your favorite podcast app so you're notified

00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:20.070
of new episodes. In next week's episode, I go

00:36:20.070 --> 00:36:21.710
into greater detail and discuss the differences

00:36:21.710 --> 00:36:25.210
between wearing a weighted vest versus a rucksack

00:36:25.210 --> 00:36:27.829
on your back and when you should wear one instead

00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.389
of the other. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks

00:36:30.389 --> 00:36:32.809
again for listening to this episode of The Rucker's

00:36:32.809 --> 00:36:32.969
Edge.