Blister Prevention for Ruckers: Socks, Shoes, and Foot Care with Alex Thrasher from Mudgear (Part 1 of 2)

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Have you ever had a great ruck completely ruined

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by a blister? Maybe everything felt fine for

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the first few miles, then a hotspot showed up,

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and a mile later it became painful. By the end

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of the ruck, every step felt miserable. The frustrating

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part is that most blisters are preventable. In

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today's episode, we're talking about blister

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prevention, footwear, sock systems, moisture

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management, and the small mistakes that can create

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big problems over long distances. My guest today

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is Alex Thrasher, founder of Mud Gear and the

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creator of one of the first merino wool socks

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built specifically for rucking. If you're new

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here, you're listening to the Rucker's Edge podcast,

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a show all about rucking that is designed to

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help you improve your rucking routine, lose weight,

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and ultimately gain your strength and energy

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back. Each episode dives into the science, stories,

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and strategies of rucking. You'll learn from

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top ruckers, coaches, health experts, and performance

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specialists who break down what it takes to train

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smarter, recover faster, and stay ready for the

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next challenge. So whether you're new to rucking

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or an experienced rucker that's already logged

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hundreds of miles, this is the show for you.

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I'm your host, Spencer. Thanks for listening

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in. As I said before, today's guest is Alex Thrasher,

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the founder of Mud Gear, which is a performance

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sock and outdoor gear company based in North

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Carolina. Alex grew up in the army town of Fayetteville,

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North Carolina, spent more than a decade supporting

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the F3 fitness community with gear and apparel,

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and during the COVID era set out to solve a problem

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many ruckers know all too well. blisters. Beyond

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designing gear, Alex is an experienced rucker

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and long distance hiker who's logged miles on

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the Appalachian Trail and the Camino de Santiago

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in Spain. One quick note before we get started,

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my conversation with Alex ended up being so packed

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with useful information that I split it into

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two different episodes. This is part one, where

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we focus on what causes blisters, footwear, sock

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systems, and building a foot care strategy that

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works before problems start. All right. Please

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enjoy my conversation with Alex Thrasher. Alex,

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thanks so much for joining me here today on the

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Rutgers Edge podcast. I'm excited to talk about

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foot care. It's a really significant issue for

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new Rutgers that go out on long rucks and they

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get three, four or five miles in, they start

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feeling hot spots. And then at the end of the

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ruck, they're like, oh yeah, that was a blister.

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So appreciate you coming on and talking about

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foot care this morning, Alex. doctor of physical

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therapy, talked about feet, foot problems. And

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I think this is a good compliment to talk about

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socks and foot care, the things you can do, especially

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preventative things you can do. Very important

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for new and old ruckers alike. Agreed. Yeah.

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And for any listeners out there. Like Alex mentioned,

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I highly recommend going back and listening to

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that episode. John Ritter shared a lot of great

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information about biomechanics and avoiding injury.

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This will definitely complement it. You're right,

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Alex. We're specifically talking about avoiding

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blisters, which is probably a number one way

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to kill any progress with rucking. And I'll reference

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that down in the show notes if the listener wants

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to go check that out. But before we get into,

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I guess. you know, blister prevention systems.

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I want to give people a context about your background.

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You built the SOC specifically for rucking during

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COVID. And I just was curious, can you walk me

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through the problem that you identified and what

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you wanted to solve? Yeah, of course. I guess,

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and even to back up a bit before that, I've sort

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of been rucking adjacent for a lot of my life,

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having grown up in Fayetteville, North Carolina

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as an Army town, Army Air Force base there. And

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I think, you know, for me, rucking was something

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that I always got to see the GIs doing on the

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side of the road with those huge packs that are

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much bigger and different than what you're going

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to see with your buddies or out in the neighborhood.

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And, you know, I think from there I got reintroduced

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to rucking around 2012, 2013 with a group of

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guys that I work out with here in Charlotte.

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And it's a nationwide group called F3. And those

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guys are deep into the rucking scene. And we

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started to do a lot of events together, starting

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with like Spartan races and Tough Mudders. Eventually,

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a subset of those guys got into rucking and I've

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been working with them for over a decade now

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on gear. So I wasn't new to socks and apparel

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just because I've been working in that space

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for quite a long time. But in the COVID days,

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as you mentioned, that's when I feel like rucking

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had a turning point because Events were canceled

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all over the country. You couldn't sign up for

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a Spartan race. You couldn't sign up for a 5K,

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a 10K, a half marathon. So, you know, trail running

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became very popular back then, just a way to

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get outside. And rucking, you know, right there

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with it was a way that you could get your exercise,

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be outdoors. If you were social distancing and

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needed space between people, that wasn't hard

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to do. That's where I feel like a lot of folks

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in our community became ruckers during that period

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if they weren't already exposed to it. And, you

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know, I realized that there was just as strong

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a community around rucking as there was in the

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other sports and events in which we've done a

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lot of participation. So I took some of my, you

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know, gear expertise and my sock expertise and...

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decided to solve the problem well if we wanted

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to create the world's best sock for rucking what

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is that technically how is it different from

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just hiking or how is it uh how is it different

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from the compression sock world where uh we we

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made our name uh with the mud gear brand and

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um that was a challenge i was you know i needed

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a project i like everybody i needed a project

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during covid and set out to solve that and make

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for myself, you know, scratch your own itch,

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what I thought was the best rucking sock possible.

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And, you know, fast forward to today, it's become

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our number two selling sock style right behind

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our tall compression socks. Come on, cool. I

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didn't realize that. Yeah, you have several products

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from, I didn't realize that, yeah, that was that

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popular. I mean, I haven't tried them out, full

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disclosure, but it sounds like they're very well

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received. That's one of my follow -up items here

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is make sure we get a pair on your feet. Oh,

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I appreciate that, Alex. Yeah. You know, going

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back to COVID, yeah, you're right. A lot of people

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were doing new things to kind of fill that void

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of, yeah, in -person activities. It was either

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that or a pickleball in the driveway, whatever

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your choice was. That's right. That's right.

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I certainly, that's when I started rucking. Yeah,

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a friend of mine, Mark, kind of, I think he sent

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me a podcast and sent me some workouts he was

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doing. I was like, yeah, you know what, let's

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do this. Because I had been biking for a while

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and, you know. I just started to find biking

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a little boring. Well, yeah, let's go out for

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some of these rucks. Let's talk about why blisters

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happen and what's actually going on inside your

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boot. So I want to draw from your experience

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after all these years of you rucking and hiking,

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which I definitely want to touch on your experience

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on the Appalachian Trail and the Camino in Spain,

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I think it is, right? That's right. Yeah. Later

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in this episode. Yeah. And so we'll touch on

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that later in the episode, but let's talk about

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blisters. Start with the basics, because I think

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most Rutgers have never had anyone actually explain

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this to them, or at least, you know, like I haven't.

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I was a runner and I never really understood,

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you know, exactly the cause. They just kind of

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appeared and I'm like, oh, OK. But like very

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basically, it might be a stupid question, but

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what is a blister? Yeah, and I'm going to give

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you the layman's explanation here because that's

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what I am. I don't have the doctorate or the

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medical training as John does in the foot care

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space. But what I do have is a lot of experience

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and a lot of mistakes that I've made personally

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where, you know, I think between you and me,

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we can together share some lessons learned that

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maybe. will help listeners prevent those things

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or keep them from making those mistakes or having

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to learn those lessons themselves the hard way.

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So three things to remember when it comes to

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blisters. It is friction, heat, and moisture.

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Those are your three ingredients that come together

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to make the bad recipe for a blister. And I think

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it's... it's probably best to talk about each

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of those separately because there are prevention

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strategies to help abate your moisture or reduce

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your friction, keep the heat down. And, you know,

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working together, you've got to kind of fight

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all three legs of that stool to prevent blisters.

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And we'll talk about taking care of blisters

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as well. But the whole point is to keep you in

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the game, right? Especially if you're going to

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do... multi -day events or go on, you know, long

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hikes that have, you know, many miles per day,

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the blister is the number one thing to take you

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out of the game. You know, there are plenty of

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other things, you know, foot and hip and knee

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problems that can slow you down. But blisters

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are probably the most common that will take somebody

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out of a long hike or You know, for me, first

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of all, why we built our rucksack with merino

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wool, it's a very low friction yarn and also

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has some heat abatement properties. But I think

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the friction side is originally, you know, why

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we chose that and why so many ruckers and long

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distance hikers choose a wool, a merino wool

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especially, as the yarn of choice. Friction is

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also related to fit. So when you think about

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your shoes and points of contact and where you

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need to have some room to breathe in your shoes

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and where you need to have things fitting nice

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and snug, I would focus on your heel area and

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the forefoot. Think about the ball of your foot

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area as being the most important for low friction.

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You don't want your heel sliding around in your

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shoe or boot, and you don't want your forefoot

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and the ball of your foot sliding around in your

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shoe. So I do like to have some extra space in

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the toe box. There's plenty of shoes out there

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that have a wide toe box. And, you know, know

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that your foot does swell and grow during, you

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know, a long time underweight. So you do need

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to have some space, especially in that front

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of foot area. But it can't be so much that you're

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sliding inside your boot. And I also want at

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some point I want to talk about lacing and I'm

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a big fan of heel lock. We'll talk about that,

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I'm sure. But yeah, let me stop there and see

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if you have other tips related to fit related

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to the friction element. Yeah, for me, I remember

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the first time I got a blister, it was straight

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up wearing ankle socks and the boot rubbing right

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onto the skin. That's like route one. how to

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get a blister, right? Create, create no barrier

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that you have your friction there. You have your

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heat and you're sweating so you can have a moisture.

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So yeah, that, that was a killer. Um, now can

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we talk about like the, uh, the boot sock interface

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as its own system? Like, um, how does, how does

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Merino wool differ, uh, between like cotton and

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maybe some like plastic type socks with its interaction

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with, with the boot itself? Sure. Well, I guess

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there's the interface between the boot and the

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sock and then the sock and the foot. And it's

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kind of hard to talk about one without the other.

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But cotton. To me, where it falls down is in

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how it absorbs and retains moisture in the water.

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And I feel that more in the connection between

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the sock and the foot. If you think about, you

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know, when you get pruney from being in water

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too long, it's the same situation. If you have

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water that's soaked up and absorbed in that cotton

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and that's against your skin for a long period

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of time, it really softens up that part of your

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skin and creates an area that too much moisture

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and the... The friction is working against you

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there. In the outer layer, so you mentioned the

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sock and the boot, I guess the thing that's most

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important to realize is underneath your foot

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is the most weight that will be anywhere in the

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whole rucking system. Your hips carry a lot of

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weight. Your shoulders carry a lot of weight.

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You keep working your way down the chain, you

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know, your hips are going to carry the weight

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that's on your shoulders, plus your whole upper

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body. Down to your knees, you add in your upper

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thighs. You go all the way down to your ankles

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and your feet. But when you get under your foot

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and you get to that layer of sock and shoe, that

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is carrying not only the pack weight, but all

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of your weight from top of your head all the

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way to the bottom of your feet. So the single,

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you know, point of contact that has the most

00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:10.899
weight on it is right there so as as there's

00:13:10.899 --> 00:13:13.580
friction in that area it's just magnified by

00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:15.100
the amount of total weight that you're carrying

00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:17.179
in in that spot which is above and beyond anywhere

00:13:17.179 --> 00:13:19.500
else along the chain uh important to think about

00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:23.759
that that point oh yeah no absolutely and you

00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.820
know going back to to merino wool it took me

00:13:27.820 --> 00:13:31.100
a while to realize that difference between um

00:13:31.100 --> 00:13:35.279
moisture wicking versus moisture retaining because

00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.840
i i historically have only worn cotton socks.

00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:41.200
And I see some people wearing like dress socks

00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.419
that are like kind of a plastic -y material.

00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:46.360
And I guess that might work a little bit better

00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.100
than cotton because it may not retain it. But

00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:50.399
yeah, like ultimately something wicking is what

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.059
you need. So thanks for hitting on that. Let's

00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.879
talk about lacing strategy and heel lock. So

00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.720
what is heel lock? I know what those two words

00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.000
mean individually, but put together, what does

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.210
that mean? So it's a form of, it's a method for

00:14:05.210 --> 00:14:08.629
lacing. And there's no better way to explain

00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:11.809
it than to tell you to just look it up on YouTube.

00:14:11.889 --> 00:14:14.750
There's a lot of great videos that will show

00:14:14.750 --> 00:14:17.070
you the method, which is a lot easier than explaining

00:14:17.070 --> 00:14:19.710
it. But what it's going to do is going to take

00:14:19.710 --> 00:14:22.269
some of the top part of your laces and create

00:14:22.269 --> 00:14:27.450
a looping pattern that basically keeps the laces

00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:29.990
from... From loosening up at the top of the boot,

00:14:30.049 --> 00:14:33.070
it really locks that heel and that Achilles into

00:14:33.070 --> 00:14:35.809
place, but it allows the rest of the foot to

00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:39.690
have a little bit more movement. It's different

00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:42.269
from a traditional way you might tie your shoes

00:14:42.269 --> 00:14:48.870
in that a traditional shoe tie will create a

00:14:48.870 --> 00:14:51.590
certain level of tightness throughout on the

00:14:51.590 --> 00:14:54.169
top of your foot if you think about it. You know,

00:14:54.169 --> 00:14:55.610
running down from the top of the foot towards

00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:58.250
the toe, whereas the heel lock really concentrates

00:14:58.250 --> 00:15:01.309
that around the ankle, locks that in solidly,

00:15:01.309 --> 00:15:03.190
but it allows the rest of the foot to have a

00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:06.169
bit more freedom of movement that you're going

00:15:06.169 --> 00:15:07.809
to need. Not too much to where you're going to

00:15:07.809 --> 00:15:10.950
be slipping around, but a little bit more freedom

00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:13.409
of movement that allows your foot to expand and

00:15:13.409 --> 00:15:16.909
swell over long distance while preventing that

00:15:16.909 --> 00:15:20.230
heel from slipping up and down, which is the

00:15:20.230 --> 00:15:22.250
most important thing for preventing heel blisters.

00:15:22.779 --> 00:15:26.019
Sure. Now, is that specific for boots or can

00:15:26.019 --> 00:15:30.179
you also lace up your shoes? Like if you yeah,

00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:32.720
if you have like a hundred percent. Yeah, it

00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.700
is. It's something I use on my boots, but it's

00:15:34.700 --> 00:15:37.019
something I wear on my tennis shoes, my running

00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.720
shoes, pretty much every pair that I wear for

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.940
any reason. I use that method now, now that I've,

00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:47.039
you know, I swear by it. But I think there's

00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:48.639
an important point in here that I want to make,

00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:51.789
which is. You don't have to have boots. And there

00:15:51.789 --> 00:15:54.370
are many times that I go out without boots. And

00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:56.950
it's not just a cost thing. Sure, there's a lot

00:15:56.950 --> 00:15:59.509
of expensive boots and I even make a boot. So,

00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:02.129
you know, maybe it's counterintuitive. But I

00:16:02.129 --> 00:16:06.789
think trail running shoes are an excellent choice

00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:10.870
for a lot of rucking and hiking activities. And

00:16:10.870 --> 00:16:13.470
I would say when I've been on the Appalachian

00:16:13.470 --> 00:16:16.629
Trail, you know, amongst very, very serious hikers,

00:16:16.629 --> 00:16:19.610
through hikers. Trail running shoes, a really

00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:22.230
good pair of trail running shoes is more common

00:16:22.230 --> 00:16:26.169
these days than a boot. It used to be 20 years

00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:29.669
ago maybe that people were lacing up those heavier

00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:33.070
hiking boots. But trail running shoes have definitely

00:16:33.070 --> 00:16:38.110
taken the lead due to the lightweight nature

00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:41.009
of them and the grip that they usually provide.

00:16:41.269 --> 00:16:47.009
But I would say number one for me is how... How

00:16:47.009 --> 00:16:49.789
how ventilated they are. In other words, most

00:16:49.789 --> 00:16:52.850
trail running shoes are going to not hold water.

00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:54.769
They're going to dry out very quickly. They're

00:16:54.769 --> 00:16:57.710
lightweight and they just breathe in a way that

00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.529
a large hiking boot with a lot of padding around

00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:03.429
it will not. And of course, that'll lead us into

00:17:03.429 --> 00:17:06.450
the discussion around heat. One of the the the

00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:11.289
two of the the second of the three horsemen that

00:17:11.289 --> 00:17:15.589
lead to blisters. For me, the trail running shoe

00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:17.210
being lightweight and ventilated is something

00:17:17.210 --> 00:17:19.690
that helps keep that heat down. So, yeah, you

00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:21.410
don't have to have a boot, especially you don't

00:17:21.410 --> 00:17:24.269
have to have a high price boot. Trail running

00:17:24.269 --> 00:17:26.650
shoes are just fine and, in fact, even recommended

00:17:26.650 --> 00:17:31.670
in a lot of environments. Yeah. So when I started

00:17:31.670 --> 00:17:33.690
getting serious about rucking, I had that dilemma.

00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:35.470
I have historical ankle issues. I was like, I

00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:37.490
probably should wear a boot. But I'm also in

00:17:37.490 --> 00:17:39.170
Louisiana where the average temperature is like

00:17:39.170 --> 00:17:41.309
90 throughout the year. So I'm like, oh, it's

00:17:41.309 --> 00:17:45.109
really hot. So I tried a boot. It was too hot.

00:17:45.190 --> 00:17:46.869
It wasn't really well ventilated. Maybe it was

00:17:46.869 --> 00:17:49.329
just the boot that I was using. So, yeah, I've

00:17:49.329 --> 00:17:53.410
been rucking in these McCall's that I have. They're

00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:54.589
pretty well ventilated. They're kind of lightweight,

00:17:54.589 --> 00:18:00.109
but they have a good sole. But, you know, maybe

00:18:00.109 --> 00:18:02.289
I just need to explore different types of boots.

00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.190
So you mentioned that Mug Gear has one. I think

00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:07.769
you mentioned that Mark Jones helped you develop

00:18:07.769 --> 00:18:09.690
that. So you and Mark kind of worked pretty closely,

00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:11.170
got to know each other, and he gave you a lot

00:18:11.170 --> 00:18:13.390
of insight designing that one, right? He did.

00:18:13.529 --> 00:18:15.890
Yeah, he's a great guy and just a phenomenal

00:18:15.890 --> 00:18:20.269
rucker. I mean, to watch this guy train is very

00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:25.329
next level. So, yeah, I guess I've been very

00:18:25.329 --> 00:18:28.190
fortunate to have been around what I would consider.

00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.779
elite ruckers and mark obviously is one at the

00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:34.299
top of that list having a world record that he

00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:39.339
holds in in rucking um and guys guys like that

00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:42.839
um we wanted to tap into their knowledge when

00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.720
we built not only our sock but our first uh rucking

00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.420
shoe uh i call it a shoe sometimes i call it

00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:49.960
a boot sometimes because it's sort of a hybrid

00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.849
between the two yeah we we basically um Took

00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:57.269
a running shoe and we took a boot, like a hiking

00:18:57.269 --> 00:18:59.710
boot, and we made him have a baby and create

00:18:59.710 --> 00:19:02.789
something that's a very lightweight hybrid in

00:19:02.789 --> 00:19:05.289
between the two, very kind of tactical, lightweight,

00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:09.329
three -quarter rucking boot. So Mark was directly

00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:14.289
involved in a lot of the early development and

00:19:14.289 --> 00:19:17.250
design and then definitely a lot of the testing.

00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:19.769
He put a lot of miles in what we created to make

00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:22.170
sure it was going to. um you know be sufficient

00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:24.509
for not only elite rucking but all the way down

00:19:24.509 --> 00:19:25.970
the chain that if it's going to work for mark

00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:28.470
it's going to work for for me yeah yeah right

00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:31.509
yeah and mark came on a week or two before he

00:19:31.509 --> 00:19:33.990
accomplished his his world record and was really

00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.349
happy to to learn from his experience and you're

00:19:36.349 --> 00:19:38.750
right like the training that that dude does is

00:19:38.750 --> 00:19:42.309
unreal like all day every day outside doing something

00:19:42.309 --> 00:19:45.329
uh again i'll link that episode down in the in

00:19:45.329 --> 00:19:47.599
the show notes More with Alex in just a moment,

00:19:47.660 --> 00:19:50.220
including why he never uses waterproof boots.

00:19:50.619 --> 00:19:52.420
But I want to take a quick break to say thanks

00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:54.640
for listening to the podcast. If you know a rucker

00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.640
that's been battling blisters or someone just

00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.000
getting into rucking and will inevitably run

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.539
into blisters, please text this episode to them.

00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:03.500
It can help them figure out a blister prevention

00:20:03.500 --> 00:20:06.000
system that works for them and keep them on the

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.700
trail longer. Thanks. Going back to... What causes

00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:11.559
blisters? So we talked about moisture wicking.

00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.839
We talked about friction. Do you have anything

00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.099
else to add about what heat is doing to cause

00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.400
the blister before we go into like an implementation

00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.440
on how to prevent it? I do have a couple notes

00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.200
on heat. I want to talk about waterproof shoes

00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.200
a little bit. I have pretty much banned them

00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:33.880
from my rucking activity in that I run hot. And

00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.640
so I think it's important to. sort of know yourself,

00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.500
know your body. And over time, you'll understand,

00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:42.079
do your feet run hot? Do your feet run cold?

00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:46.299
Do your feet sweat? Do you naturally have calluses

00:20:46.299 --> 00:20:50.339
and that sort of thing? For me, my feet tend

00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:54.000
to run hot. And I have noticed over time that

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.920
a waterproof shoe, because of that inner liner

00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.980
that keeps out the water, it also keeps in heat.

00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.339
And for me, I can't go very far with a waterproof

00:21:03.339 --> 00:21:06.119
shoe without my feet starting to sweat. And it

00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.220
creates the same problem I was trying to prevent,

00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:11.160
the waterproof trying to keep water out. But

00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.980
instead of that, I'm generating my own moisture

00:21:12.980 --> 00:21:16.079
inside the shoe or the boot because of that waterproofing.

00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:18.200
So in fact, the only time that I wear waterproof

00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:20.359
shoes now is if I'm going to be standing in the

00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:22.819
cold somewhere. I used to go stand and watch

00:21:22.819 --> 00:21:26.900
our son play soccer in a cold field. That might

00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:29.259
keep my feet warm because of that liner inside,

00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:33.960
but I just can't do it for activity. So even

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.900
on a cold day, if I'm going to be moving, I'd

00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:39.980
rather have a shoe that breathes. I would rather,

00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:43.400
at the end of a long day on the Appalachian Trail,

00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:46.019
I would rather take off my lightweight, breathable

00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:48.940
shoes and let them air out overnight versus have

00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:52.680
a waterproof boot that is much more difficult

00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.569
to dry out once it does get wet. And if you're

00:21:55.569 --> 00:21:58.529
ever in a situation where your foot gets submerged,

00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:01.589
either intentionally or by accident, you know,

00:22:01.589 --> 00:22:06.670
on a creek crossing or in a downpour, once a

00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:08.890
waterproof shoe gets wet, it's incredibly hard

00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:13.190
to get dry. If you're putting them on your hiking

00:22:13.190 --> 00:22:16.990
poles overnight or just trying to take out the

00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:21.880
insoles and the liner and just... dry things

00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:24.859
out. It's much easier to dry a ventilated lightweight

00:22:24.859 --> 00:22:29.180
shoe than it is a shoe with that type of waterproofing.

00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.400
So they're basically out of my pack, out of my

00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.000
packing list for any type of ruck or hike activity

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.740
for me. That's my experience. I don't know. Have

00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:42.440
you experimented with waterproof shoes? You know,

00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.319
so what I'm currently using is waterproof to

00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:46.920
an extent, but just at the bottom. So there's

00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.779
certainly, there's some ventilation. But, yeah,

00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:52.819
you're right. Even with shoes that are ventilated,

00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:55.519
if they're not dry, it's a bad situation. I remember

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.859
in my running days, you know, running through

00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:00.420
the rain, had I get up in the next morning, the

00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.039
feet or the shoes were still soaked. And, yeah,

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.099
created hot spots, created blisters. So it's

00:23:06.099 --> 00:23:09.220
funny hearing how you dried your shoes on the

00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:12.859
trail by hanging them on your poles. versus like

00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:15.140
sticking newspaper in them and sticking them

00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:17.519
by the refrigerator for them to dry quickly overnight.

00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:20.119
It's certainly two different situations. You

00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:21.619
have to improvise, you know, you get them up

00:23:21.619 --> 00:23:23.720
close to the fire or something like that. But

00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.500
that's part of the trail community out there

00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:29.660
when you're on the longer and overnight trips.

00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.140
And we did some tent camping. We did some of

00:23:33.140 --> 00:23:36.940
the camping in the lot. I'll call it a lodge,

00:23:37.059 --> 00:23:41.079
but the open air. covered areas. Yeah. That's

00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.579
a lot of, a lot of smells in those, in those

00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:47.759
camps. I could imagine. Yeah. You get to know

00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.980
your neighbor very well. I bet. And sometimes

00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:53.339
they can get packed too, right? Sometimes they'll

00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:55.180
show up, there'll be nobody there. Other times

00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:58.420
they'll be packed. Yeah. I've only spent maybe

00:23:58.420 --> 00:24:01.920
one day on the Appalachian Trail near, I think

00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.660
it was Chattanooga, but certainly I would like

00:24:04.660 --> 00:24:07.819
to do. I think, is it Bill Bryson wrote the book?

00:24:08.860 --> 00:24:11.720
Into the Woods. Yeah, A Walk in the Woods. Great

00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.220
book. They did a movie too. Yeah, they did. Was

00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:17.799
it Robert Redford in that? It was. I haven't

00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.180
seen that movie, but the book was certainly good.

00:24:20.259 --> 00:24:21.920
He's a funny author. It keeps you entertained.

00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.079
And yeah, I learned a lot about that. Did anybody

00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:29.269
give you a trail name? Yeah. So my trail name

00:24:29.269 --> 00:24:32.369
is The Ghoul. The Ghoul. Yeah. The reason for

00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:35.869
it is about two miles into a hike, it doesn't

00:24:35.869 --> 00:24:37.250
matter what the temperature is. I mentioned my

00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:39.549
feet run hot. The rest of me runs hot too. And

00:24:39.549 --> 00:24:42.250
I tend to form a sweat pattern on my chest. It

00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:44.890
looks like two eyes and a big open mouth. And

00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:47.109
that's The Ghoul comes out about two miles into

00:24:47.109 --> 00:24:51.299
any longer distance. Gotcha. Sort of like a Warshack

00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:53.460
test on your chest. I can get that. That's it.

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.059
All right. That wraps up part one of my conversation

00:24:56.059 --> 00:24:58.819
with Alex. If you're curious about the products

00:24:58.819 --> 00:25:01.400
that Mudgear has to offer, head on over to mudgear

00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.400
.com slash T -R -E and check out some of the

00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:06.859
rucking related gear that they have to offer.

00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:09.519
If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to

00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.640
follow or subscribe to the show in your favorite

00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:13.579
podcast app so you're notified of new episodes,

00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:16.619
including next week's part two of my conversation

00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:20.059
with Alex. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks

00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:22.440
again for listening to this episode of The Rucker's

00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:22.579
Edge.