Blister Prevention for Ruckers: Socks, Shoes, and Foot Care with Alex Thrasher from Mudgear (Part 2 of 2)

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Have you ever wondered why some ruckers can cover

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mile after mile without foot problems while others

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end up sidelined by blisters? Well, today my

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guest Alex Thrasher, the founder of Mudgear,

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and I discuss some of the methods that we can

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use to prevent blisters and stay on the trail.

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This is part two of my conversation with Alex.

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If you're interested in learning about how blisters

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form in the first place, I suggest you go back

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and listen to the previous episode. But in this

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episode, we're focused entirely on prevention.

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Alex walks us through a complete foot care system

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for ruckers, including what to do before a ruck,

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how to identify and manage hot spots during a

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ruck, and how to recover afterwards so you can

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get back out there faster. If blisters have ever

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slowed down your training, this episode will

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give you a practical framework for keeping your

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feet healthy and staying consistent with your

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rucking goals. You're listening to the Rucker's

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Edge podcast, a show all about rucking that is

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designed to help you improve your rucking routine,

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lose weight, and ultimately gain your strength

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and energy back. Each episode dives into the

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science, stories, and strategies behind rucking.

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You'll learn from top ruckers, coaches, health

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experts, and performance specialists who break

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down what it takes to train smarter, recover

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faster, and stay ready for the next challenge.

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So whether you're new to rucking or an experienced

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rucker that's already logged hundreds of miles,

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this is the show for you. I'm your host, Spencer.

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Thanks for joining me today. Please enjoy part

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two of my conversation with Alex Thrasher from

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Mudgear. Okay. So now we understand what's actually

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happening that causes a blister. Let's talk about

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implementation or like a foot care system before

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we go on a ruck, during a ruck and after a ruck.

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So pre -ruck, walk me through what a good pre

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-ruck routine or foot prep looks like. Yep. All

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right. Number one. day before or even the day

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of, cut your toenails. I mean, a lot of people

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don't think about that, but toenails can be a

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big problem, especially if you have one that's

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just, you know, touching another toe because

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you haven't kept them trimmed up nice and clean.

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I always try to make a reminder to cut toenails

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before I go out on any, especially a multi -day

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thing, if I'm not going to have a pair on me.

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But it is a good thing to have in your pack.

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If you have the weight to spare, you can take

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a pair of small toenail clippers. It's good to

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have. I'm finding many non -toenail related reasons

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to use it here and there as well. But yeah, make

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sure you start with nicely clipped toenails.

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And then just before you set out, I would say,

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you know, clean and dry is how you want to start.

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So as you're putting on your socks, you know,

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take that just couple extra seconds to Make sure

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your feet are clean of any debris. Think about

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even just a little bit of dirt or sand that's

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in between your toes or under your foot can make

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a huge difference several miles down the road.

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So clean off your feet really good before you

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put on your socks. Turn your sock inside out

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and brush it off. You don't know what was stuck

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on it after it came out of the dryer. For me,

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it's usually dog hair. My dog's here beside me

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and her hair tends to get on my socks and stay

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there. So even if you have a clean pair of socks

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right out of the laundry, just turn them inside

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out and make sure there's no debris in there

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that's going to give you a problem later down

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the path. And start with a good pair of socks.

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It's the cheapest. Part of your gear chain, most

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likely, and easiest way to prevent, you know,

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many of the blisters and things that could take

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you off trail or out of your ruck or out of your

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event. Start with a good pair of socks. We talked

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about looking for natural fibers, merino wool,

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but I'm not against synthetic fibers. We put

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a blend of merino wool and synthetic fibers into

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our ruck socks in the final version for different

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reasons. But stay away from cotton. And I would

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look for the thinnest sock that you're comfortable

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in. I have usually a medium cushioned footbed

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in the socks that I prefer to wear in hikes and

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rocks. I find that really thick socks that you

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might associate with traditional. hiking and

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backpacking uh that i call those cabin socks

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you know maybe after a ruck you might want to

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put that on to put your feet by the fire but

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it's just too much heat um in my experience to

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have a very thick sock on i would rather have

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a sports performance style sock with the right

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fibers um that is a cushion but but you know

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minimum to medium cushion not a really thick

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sock um those are my tips what else do you have

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gotcha no that's that's pretty much all of mine

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i one thing that I noted here was brushing your

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socks out. You're absolutely right. We lost,

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our dogs passed about four years ago. We're still

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finding dog hair around the house, like in the

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crack between the dishwasher and the side of

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the wall. So I'm adding that to my routine. So

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yeah, shimmering nails, another good one that

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I hadn't considered, but yeah, make sure your

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feet are clean and dry. Brush your socks out.

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And in terms of sock selection, you want a good

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sock that's a natural fiber like wool, merino

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wool specifically, and a thin sock. I have recently

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been rucking in some thicker hiking socks. But

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yeah, I think it is time to make that switch

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to a thinner sock. So thanks for that, Alex.

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Appreciate that. Okay, so transitioning from

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pre -ruck to during the ruck. What do we need

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to be looking out for in terms of listening to

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our body, maybe identifying hot spots kind of?

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Absolutely. Well, I can't move ahead without

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one more note on the pre -rock side. So we talked

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about the proper fit of the shoes and the heel

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locking. So go ahead and watch that. Look up

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and watch those videos on heel lock method for

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tying your shoes. And that'll make sure you have

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a nice, comfortable tie that doesn't slip around

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there. But I do want to say a couple extra things

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about. heat and thickness in socks. So I'm not

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a fan of liners. You'll hear a lot of guys that

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do like wearing liners, but basically for me,

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that means you're wearing two pair of socks.

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When we were designing our rucksack, that was

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one of the things I wanted to avoid, which was

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having extra gear. A lot of people will say,

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you know, if there's a piece of gear that you

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need. You know, the mantra is two is one and

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one is none. But when it comes to socks, I don't

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think my socks need to have an extra piece of

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gear to go with them. Like socks are socks. It's

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like your socks have a comfort animal or something

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if they need a liner to go with your socks. Why

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not just make a sock? Why not just have a sock

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that does the job you need it to do without a

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companion piece of gear that is more to pack

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and more weight? I personally don't wear a liner

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and haven't found them to be worthwhile versus

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having a really good fitting single pair of socks.

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The other thing that I hear a lot and get questions

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about is toe socks. And this relates to heat

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as well for me. I think that there are some people

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who have a foot anatomy that lends itself to

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benefiting from toe socks. I think it's a minority

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of foot shapes that are out there. And there's

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a couple reasons why I don't like toe socks.

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Number one, think about how much extra material

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is in the front of your shoe if you're wearing

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toe socks. Not only do you have the normal sock

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that's surrounding the outside of your foot,

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but each toe has its own mini sock. And if you

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add that up, that's eight additional layers of

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fabric inside the front of your shoe. Ten total

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layers from the outside of your pinky toe to

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the outside of your big toe. I would much prefer

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to have a single layer surrounding the toe box.

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And if I have a hotspot, if I have a couple of

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toes that tend to run together, they give me

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trouble. I would rather tape that individual

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toe and provide a little layer there of friction

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control than I would adding extra heat and extra

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layers inside the toe box where... You want to

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have a little bit of freedom of movement up there

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and anything that also restricts that freedom

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of movement. So it's the two things it's restricting

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freedom of movement by extra layers and adding

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the potential for more heat because of those

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extra layers. That's why I'm not a fan and it

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doesn't it doesn't work for me in my foot. I

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know others that swear by it. And, you know,

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if it works for you, it works for you. But those

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are the reasons I'm not a toe sock fan. Yeah.

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The other thing while you were talking about

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toe socks, it reminded me of something that.

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A lot of like long distance ruckers do. I've

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done a couple of half marathons. I've done a

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few 10 milers. But I can imagine if you're going

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a long distance, some people talk about putting

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Vaseline on their skin and then putting a sock

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on. What are your thoughts on that? I've never

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had to try that. So I have no experience with

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it. I don't know if you have. So I have used

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like a body glide before. That was after several

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days and noticing an area that was getting a

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little raw. I've used that as sort of a prevention

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technique to keep from developing a blister in

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that spot. I find that Bodyglide is good because

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it's sort of formulated to not retain moisture.

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I don't use Vaseline because I do think it has

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a little more tendency to sort of trap moisture

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in a way. That a good body glide does not. Gotcha.

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And then lastly, Band -Aids. I think obviously

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if you know you're prone to having a hot spot

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and a blister at one specific spot, you want

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to put some tape or Band -Aid on it as well.

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Do you have a recommendation on a type of Band

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-Aid? I'm thinking to prevent moisture, you don't

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want to go with those like plasticky ones. You

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might want something that has more breathability,

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like those fiber type of Band -Aids. Yeah. And

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I guess one thing that I have learned about blisters

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that I think is just really cool from a human

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anatomy and nature standpoint is, you know, think

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about. especially an early stage blister as nature's

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own, God's own Band -Aid. I mean, your body is

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basically producing its own Band -Aid that will

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be effective to a certain extent. Now, if that

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thing grows and swells and has a lot of fluid

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in it, it's sort of gone beyond its useful lifespan

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and needs to be drained and treated properly.

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But it is cool to think about how your body can

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basically produce its own bandaid in a spot where

00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.899
that friction is occurring. So, you know, rather

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than completely taping over or covering those

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things, they make, they sell the pads that can

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provide some cushion around a blister. And I

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found those to be very effective as long as you

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have a small early stage blister that just needs

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some protection. But, you know, I don't pop those

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things. I let them do their job as long as they

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don't. expand and grow beyond their useful life.

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So don't be afraid to protect a small blister.

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But then when it comes to tape, especially once

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you've had to pop a blister or have raw exposed

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skin, just be sure you're not putting tape directly

00:11:28.450 --> 00:11:31.190
on top of that because getting that off is going

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to be problematic and may cause more damage in

00:11:34.570 --> 00:11:38.940
the removal. So once you have had to pop a blister

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or you have exposed skin, that's where something

00:11:40.820 --> 00:11:48.139
like a Neosporin, an antifungal, something that's

00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:50.200
going to keep you from getting an infection that

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layers there before you'll tape it over with

00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.379
a Band -Aid becomes important. Yeah, that's an

00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:57.700
excellent tip. I appreciate that. And if any

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listeners want to go see some gnarly pictures

00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.100
of giant blisters, go check out Clint Carr's

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Instagram and his blog. It's pretty gnarly. He

00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:08.139
does some Greenbrae Fitness type events and he

00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:10.559
blogs about it and about his experience and what

00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.759
he's learning along the way. And foot care is

00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.259
definitely one of them. So one of the hardest

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judgment calls in the ruck is whether, you know,

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you stop and deal with something or you keep

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going. When it comes to foot care, mid -ruck,

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what's the rule? You feel a hot spot coming on,

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do you stop immediately? Do you keep pushing?

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What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, don't be

00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.750
a hero, but the environment or the occasion also

00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:41.929
matters a lot. So are you on the first day of

00:12:41.929 --> 00:12:45.429
a multi -day trip here? Are you in training and

00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:49.299
need to be able to put on some weight? and get

00:12:49.299 --> 00:12:52.100
out there again tomorrow or the day after? Or

00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:54.720
is this the event you've been training for and

00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.659
you're on day nine of 10 or you're under the

00:12:58.659 --> 00:13:00.379
gun to finish something or you're in the middle

00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:03.419
of a challenge event? I mean. There is a time

00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:07.159
in life to suck it up and push through. But that's

00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.519
usually going to be the culmination of a lot

00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.620
of training, a lot of work to get to a point

00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:14.720
that you're trying to accomplish something. And

00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:16.980
that last little push can get you across the

00:13:16.980 --> 00:13:19.299
finish line. No problem. I've got no problem

00:13:19.299 --> 00:13:21.620
with pushing through a blister and dealing with

00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:25.860
it later for that. Most of the time, 95 % of

00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:28.220
the time. That's not the situation. And you are

00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:30.399
training. You're getting ready for an event or

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.340
you are at the beginning of what you hope will

00:13:33.340 --> 00:13:37.960
be a enjoyable two weeks on the trail. All of

00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.440
those times are the times where you need to listen

00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:42.419
to your body and you need to be smart about it

00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:44.159
and not try to push through something that's

00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.840
going to mess up the rest of your training or

00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.940
mess up the rest of your trip because you're

00:13:49.940 --> 00:13:52.440
going to be constantly dealing with this problem

00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.059
you've created by not taking care of it. early.

00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.620
So that's the way I think about it is it's time

00:13:57.620 --> 00:14:02.000
and place dependent, but almost always a situation

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.620
where you want to stop, take care of this thing.

00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:08.360
Unless, unless this is, you know, you're on the

00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:11.539
one yard line about to finish this thing off.

00:14:11.659 --> 00:14:14.279
Leaving it on the table, sort of all on the track

00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:18.740
or on the field situation. Agreed. So if people

00:14:18.740 --> 00:14:22.019
do have to stop and address a hotspot mid rock.

00:14:22.669 --> 00:14:25.029
Walk me through what you think the Rutgers should

00:14:25.029 --> 00:14:30.450
be doing there. Yeah. You know, just pull over.

00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:35.429
You know, the people you're with will understand,

00:14:35.649 --> 00:14:37.470
especially if this isn't the ninth time it's

00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:39.549
happened today. I mean, I've been I've been there,

00:14:39.590 --> 00:14:45.210
though, where on a long day with a buddy. I was

00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:48.450
the one in the pain box in terms of my feet just

00:14:48.450 --> 00:14:52.909
not having a good day. And I was probably having

00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:54.549
to pull over, you know, that eighth or ninth

00:14:54.549 --> 00:14:57.509
time during the day when we're just trying to

00:14:57.509 --> 00:14:59.649
get into the next town where we were headed.

00:15:01.149 --> 00:15:04.590
It was annoying for me being the one who was

00:15:04.590 --> 00:15:06.830
having to pull over, but I'm sure for him it

00:15:06.830 --> 00:15:10.649
was as well. So the earlier you can take care

00:15:10.649 --> 00:15:12.409
of this, the better. But the best thing to do

00:15:12.409 --> 00:15:15.360
is say, hey. Sorry, but I've got, you know, I've

00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.039
got a blister. I've got to deal with my feet

00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.240
here for a minute. And, you know, you're going

00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:21.179
to take off the shoes. If you're going to do

00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:23.580
it, I go ahead and take off both shoes, take

00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:25.399
off the socks. And it's almost like a repeat

00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.559
of getting ready the first time around. Check

00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:32.519
your feet, you know, in the spot that was hurting

00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.200
or had a hot spot. Is there something there debris

00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:38.419
-wise that was causing it? So check your feet,

00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.659
check your socks. Is there something on your

00:15:40.659 --> 00:15:44.659
socks that was causing that? And then if I've

00:15:44.659 --> 00:15:47.200
stopped early enough and I don't have a blister

00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.860
already, this is when I will go ahead and apply

00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:54.120
either some tape or a Band -Aid in that spot

00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.019
just to give it some extra friction control.

00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:02.000
And if we've been on the hike, you know, more

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.700
than say three or four or five miles, I will

00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:06.559
probably go ahead and change those socks at that

00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:08.519
point if needed. Now, I've done it the other

00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.759
way too. I have done a... a week -long, you know,

00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.259
seven -night camping trip on the AT and used

00:16:15.259 --> 00:16:18.200
only one pair of socks. That was for a specific

00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:20.500
reason. That was when we were testing out our

00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:22.879
ruck sock, and I wanted to be sure if you had

00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.419
to, you could wear the same pair of socks for

00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:29.450
the entire time. Yeah. Which, you know... And

00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:32.809
those were probably 15 mile to 17 mile days.

00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:35.549
And they didn't smell great at the end, but they

00:16:35.549 --> 00:16:37.789
performed well. And I actually did not get blisters

00:16:37.789 --> 00:16:39.909
during that trip, but I don't recommend that.

00:16:40.830 --> 00:16:45.210
I don't recommend that. I always recommend having

00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:49.230
two or three pairs of socks so that if you need

00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:52.389
to, you can change your socks midway through

00:16:52.389 --> 00:16:56.240
a hike or a rock. And starting with a fresh pair

00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.779
can solve a lot of problems. Just something was

00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:02.940
bunching the wrong way or a fit was wrong. Switching

00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:06.279
those out can make a difference. And lace back

00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:07.819
up well. You're basically going through the same

00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:10.460
checklist that you did in the beginning of your

00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:12.900
ruck. And then hopefully that little extra layer

00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:15.279
of tape that you've done or the changing of the

00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:16.960
socks will make a difference. And you'll know

00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:19.119
then the first, usually the first half miles

00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.119
a mile, if you can feel a difference there, if

00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.039
things have cleaned up or if... you're going

00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.140
to have a larger problem to deal with. Excellent.

00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:31.759
Yeah, I think not being afraid to pull over,

00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:33.660
like you said, and address it then and there

00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:35.440
is probably the smart move, like we mentioned

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.180
before, unless it's like we're leaving it all

00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:39.160
on the table for a big accomplishment we've been

00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.839
working months up towards. But yeah, thanks for

00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.420
those tips. Let's move into post -ruck recovery.

00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:48.000
So we finished a long ruck. We had some hot spots

00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.680
and a blister did form. What do you recommend

00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.170
for... for managing that blister so that you

00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:56.910
can get back out on the trail, you know, the

00:17:56.910 --> 00:17:59.910
next day or two days from then? So one of my

00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:04.990
favorite parts of a long day on trail is taking

00:18:04.990 --> 00:18:09.210
the shoes off and letting my feet air out. When

00:18:09.210 --> 00:18:12.690
I can, I love to pack a very lightweight pair

00:18:12.690 --> 00:18:16.490
of sandals, flip -flops, slides, and just having

00:18:16.490 --> 00:18:21.819
a different shoe on my foot, even a flat. flip

00:18:21.819 --> 00:18:24.500
-flop can feel really good after your feet have

00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:27.440
been in the same pair of shoes or boots for the

00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.579
last however many hours. So I like to get out

00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.400
of my socks and shoes, let my feet just breathe

00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.619
and put on something different as soon as I get

00:18:36.619 --> 00:18:38.519
to camp or as soon as I'm done for the afternoon.

00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.339
That's when you can inspect any damage that you

00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:45.299
have as well. And like we mentioned, small blisters

00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:49.240
are okay. That's nature's band -aid. Anything

00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.109
that is squishy, I like to, you know, take a

00:18:54.109 --> 00:18:56.829
sterilized needle, put a flame under it for a

00:18:56.829 --> 00:19:00.789
little bit and pop that, you know, get the excess

00:19:00.789 --> 00:19:04.630
fluid out. And I will still let that breathe

00:19:04.630 --> 00:19:06.450
overnight. I don't want to put a Band -Aid or

00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:10.170
tape over that when I'm not out on trail. So

00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:12.549
it'll help it toughen up a little bit, you know,

00:19:12.549 --> 00:19:15.269
overnight. And, you know, just let those puppies

00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:18.349
breathe as soon as you can after you get to camp

00:19:18.349 --> 00:19:21.559
or after you are done for the day. Yeah. Agreed.

00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:24.259
Yeah. Get it, get it, uh, get your feet dry.

00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.339
You get comfortable. Yep. Remove all that friction,

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.519
remove the heat, remove the moisture. Yeah. I

00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.960
like to get my feet up, you know, your, uh, your

00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.240
blood pools down there. And, um, a lot of people

00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.519
will, will use a compression socks to help with

00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:40.839
that afterwards and really like the recovery

00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.000
benefits of, uh, uh, graduated compression. That's

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.680
basically a sock that has the tighter ankle and,

00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:49.039
and less compression as you go up and it helps

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.690
to. stimulate blood flow and can aid in a faster

00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:55.349
recovery. So either that, or just get on your

00:19:55.349 --> 00:19:56.990
back and put your feet up. That'll get your blood

00:19:56.990 --> 00:19:59.569
moving in the right direction as well, but that

00:19:59.569 --> 00:20:02.009
can definitely help with recovery. Awesome. Yeah.

00:20:02.069 --> 00:20:05.910
I did a post -rec recovery episode a while back

00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:09.289
and my post -rec recovery without having that

00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:11.970
managed blisters is pop on some compression socks,

00:20:12.170 --> 00:20:17.289
hop into my slides and ice. Feels so good. Yeah.

00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:20.480
It's like night and day. We talked about compression

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.400
socks. Is it recommended to ruck in compression

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:28.460
socks or specifically use them post -ruck? What

00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:31.059
are your thoughts on that? So I have seen it.

00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.960
I've seen it out on the Appalachian Trail. I

00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:39.859
would say that I run, again, I run hot. So I'm

00:20:39.859 --> 00:20:43.980
not a fan of having... I wear shorts even in,

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.079
you know, some 30 degrees, but I'm not a fan

00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.059
of having my shins and calves covered up just

00:20:50.059 --> 00:20:53.299
because of the heat factor. I think a lot of

00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:58.380
people that wear them find that there's a lot

00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:01.660
of muscle stability that comes from that. Distance

00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:05.819
runners, for example, as well, will find that

00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:10.259
the less... your calf muscles sort of bounce

00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:14.279
around as you are running or rucking, the longer

00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.519
they'll last. I mean, that stability really makes

00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:21.000
a difference in longevity. So I know that they

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.880
do benefit a lot of people and there are people

00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.460
who swear by wearing them during events or during

00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:30.099
long rucks. But for me, just for heat management,

00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:32.779
I like to put them on as a recovery device more

00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:39.680
than during the event. piece of gear. Yeah, I

00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.680
agree. I agree with that. I guess, yeah, the

00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.099
other alternative to the full compression sock

00:21:45.099 --> 00:21:46.940
is maybe getting a sleeve or something that might

00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:49.059
have a little bit more breathability or something

00:21:49.059 --> 00:21:51.640
like that. But I haven't, I haven't rucked in

00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:53.440
compression socks or used any sleeves. I was

00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.940
just kind of curious about that. Yeah. So, okay,

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.339
we did a pre -ruck, we did a ruck, post -ruck,

00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.279
and post -ruck is basically doing everything

00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:06.759
the opposite way you did pre -ruck. So moving

00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:11.380
on from that, I've seen a few questions pop up

00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:14.000
on social media, various forums and whatnot.

00:22:14.180 --> 00:22:16.039
I was curious if we can kind of go through those

00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.839
and get your take on them. So there's this toughen

00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.720
up argument. So plenty of people swear that if

00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.099
you just kind of ruck through it or rucking up,

00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:28.480
your feet will condition themselves and the blisters

00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.420
stop. Is that true? Is there some truth to that?

00:22:32.670 --> 00:22:35.390
Is that actually, is that a good strategy? I

00:22:35.390 --> 00:22:38.730
don't know. I'm just kind of curious. I'm going

00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:44.890
to vote myth on that one. I think from personal

00:22:44.890 --> 00:22:52.210
experience, I have very naturally tough, especially

00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:54.230
the bottoms of my feet, but around the heel and

00:22:54.230 --> 00:22:57.420
around the bottoms of my feet. You know, it is

00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:00.480
not pretty to look at. I'm not going to be a

00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.119
foot fashion model in anybody's catalog. And

00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:06.119
it's just, I guess, you know, from childhood

00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:07.980
or, I don't know, playing a lot of soccer growing

00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:10.539
up or whatever else, you know, my wife tells

00:23:10.539 --> 00:23:12.980
me I basically have hooves on the bottom of my

00:23:12.980 --> 00:23:16.440
foot bed. I mean, you can knock on these things.

00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.319
So there's no additional amount of toughening

00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.859
up at the bottom of my feet that would ever make

00:23:21.859 --> 00:23:25.559
a difference from how tough they are. Right now,

00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:27.859
that's not a that's not a brag. I mean, they

00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:34.559
are they are beyond reasonably hard balls of

00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.200
the feet. So I would say that even with that,

00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.440
I have had experiences where that part of my

00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.720
foot has this is kind of disgusting, but cracked

00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:49.740
also formed like sub layer blisters in that area

00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:52.599
from the same reasons that we talked about before.

00:23:53.150 --> 00:23:55.930
excess friction, excess moisture, excess heat.

00:23:56.289 --> 00:23:59.150
And in my case specifically, it was the moisture

00:23:59.150 --> 00:24:02.049
side. This was not a rainy day, but an extremely

00:24:02.049 --> 00:24:05.569
hot day where it was like poor water over your

00:24:05.569 --> 00:24:08.869
head, sweating profusely. And that just kept

00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:12.450
draining down into my shoes. And I had soaking

00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:17.690
wet feet from heat. And on that day, I remember

00:24:17.690 --> 00:24:21.589
specifically that the ball of my foot, the most

00:24:21.589 --> 00:24:25.750
calloused, tough hoof -like part of my foot even

00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:28.970
even that part uh formed blisters so from my

00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:30.490
personal experience i don't think that there's

00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:33.769
a level of uh broken of toughness of a foot that

00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:36.930
could ever uh combat that based on you know that

00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.569
area of mind actually having blisters here's

00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:44.549
another one um expensive boots is the expensive

00:24:44.549 --> 00:24:46.329
boot i guarantee that you're not gonna get blisters

00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:49.640
Big myth. I think that's an easy one. It's more

00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:54.319
fit than it is expense. And yeah, sure, a more

00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.299
expensive boot probably has some better materials

00:24:56.299 --> 00:24:59.920
that are in there and may last you longer. But

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:04.480
any footwear that you purchase doesn't have to

00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.039
be expensive, but make sure it fits well and

00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.720
make sure that you get some time. in those boots

00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.220
before you are either, you know, on a multi -day

00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:14.980
trip or in an event. Never want to be breaking

00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:18.440
in a new pair of shoes, you know, during an event

00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.680
or a long hike. You need to be training in the

00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.740
gear that you're going to be performing in and

00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:27.339
not waiting until race day or event day to test

00:25:27.339 --> 00:25:29.680
out a new pair of shoes for the first time. Yeah,

00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.720
yeah, that is critical. Don't, don't. Don't change

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.180
anything. Yeah, exactly. Whatever you were using

00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:39.960
to train for that, keep with that. I appreciate

00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.940
you busting those myths there. And I want to

00:25:42.940 --> 00:25:45.079
get back to, because I'm just genuinely so curious

00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:47.039
about the Appalachian Trail and your experience

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:52.799
on, is it the El Camino de Santiago? Yeah, so

00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.420
this is in Spain. There are some other pilgrimages

00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:57.900
like this, but the Camino de Santiago, the most

00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:01.390
famous one, is a route that... Crosses across

00:26:01.390 --> 00:26:03.670
northern Spain. It actually begins in France

00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:06.529
and it goes up into Pamplona and it goes through

00:26:06.529 --> 00:26:09.809
the Pyrenees and then over across to the Cathedral

00:26:09.809 --> 00:26:14.049
of St. James in Santiago, Spain. And so that's

00:26:14.049 --> 00:26:16.390
the most famous route. It probably takes at least

00:26:16.390 --> 00:26:18.410
three or four weeks. But the interesting thing

00:26:18.410 --> 00:26:21.009
is. There's a network of other trails that all

00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:23.369
lead to the same end point there at the cathedral.

00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:27.329
And I think it's 19 famous ones. So I've done

00:26:27.329 --> 00:26:30.430
the French Way, they call it, and then the Portuguese

00:26:30.430 --> 00:26:34.150
Way coastal version, which I started that one

00:26:34.150 --> 00:26:36.710
in Porto and walked up the coast with a buddy.

00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:38.509
That's the one who had to sit through nine times

00:26:38.509 --> 00:26:41.970
of me wrapping feet on one bad day. Oh, man.

00:26:42.089 --> 00:26:44.230
Yeah. Yeah. But that's a beautiful, beautiful

00:26:44.230 --> 00:26:49.890
trail. And it is. It is unlike the Appalachian

00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:55.309
Trail in that there are accommodations on the

00:26:55.309 --> 00:26:57.750
trail. You don't have to primitive camp this

00:26:57.750 --> 00:27:01.309
thing. So you'll have all sorts of people who

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:04.190
do this, some for religious reasons. You'll see

00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:06.950
Catholics that actually live in the small towns

00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:09.670
around Spain and Portugal that are on a pilgrimage.

00:27:09.670 --> 00:27:12.900
I think a lot of the people in those areas. Try

00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:14.500
to do it at least once in their life, maybe multiple

00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:17.779
times in their life as part of their religious

00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:20.539
experience. And in the 70s, it became popular

00:27:20.539 --> 00:27:24.559
with backpackers and hikers and got popularized

00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:28.119
by some books, a big German book and popular

00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:32.140
movie here in the States called The Way, which

00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:34.779
has brought more tourists over. But this these

00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:36.980
pilgrimages and these trails have been around

00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:41.990
for over a thousand years. So there are. guest

00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:44.970
houses and pensions and hostels all along the

00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:47.970
way. So, you know, most people will take their

00:27:47.970 --> 00:27:50.569
clothing with them, but you don't have to pack

00:27:50.569 --> 00:27:53.509
a tent and you don't have to pack your own food

00:27:53.509 --> 00:27:55.670
along most of these ways. There are some that

00:27:55.670 --> 00:28:00.329
are more primitive than others, but it is a little

00:28:00.329 --> 00:28:03.029
more bougie than the Appalachian Trail can be.

00:28:03.190 --> 00:28:05.750
There are people that, you know, take services

00:28:05.750 --> 00:28:09.660
to. Even move your bag by van from one stop to

00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:12.759
the next. So it can be a lot less primitive if

00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:15.460
you want it to be. And a different experience

00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:17.700
than the AT. The AT, I think, I call it more

00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:21.759
of a gnarly, grisly, grimy type of experience

00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:23.960
because you are packing in all of your food,

00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:27.319
your cooking utensils, your tents, mainly, unless

00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.180
you're planning to just sleep in some of those

00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:33.079
shelters. And you're not going to get a shower

00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:34.559
the whole time. You're going to jump in some

00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.460
water somewhere along the way or find a stream.

00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.180
So it's a different kind of fun, a different

00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:44.799
type of experience. I've loved both of them for

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.700
different reasons. But yeah, I would recommend

00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:51.799
it to anybody who likes long distance hiking,

00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:55.400
rucking. The scenery is amazing. The culture

00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.180
over there, the food is fantastic along the way.

00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.779
That's great. Yeah, it's... through hiking parts

00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:03.420
of the Appalachian Trail has always been on my

00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:05.660
bucket list. Just have never made time to do

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:08.160
it. I'm hopeful in a few years I can carve out

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.480
some time and actually get on the trail for maybe

00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.980
two weeks at a time or something like that. More

00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:14.880
with Alex in just a moment, including a tale

00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:16.940
from his time spent on the Appalachian Trail.

00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.160
But I want to take a quick break to say thanks

00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:21.559
for listening to the podcast. If you know a rucker

00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.900
that has been battling blisters or someone just

00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:25.980
getting into rucking, please text this episode

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:28.309
to them. It could help them figure out a blister

00:29:28.309 --> 00:29:30.470
prevention system that works for them and keep

00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:34.549
them on the trail longer. Okay, back to it. So

00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:38.509
all your experience on the AT and the Camino,

00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:41.609
do you have a story where maybe foot care kind

00:29:41.609 --> 00:29:44.970
of was sort of a make or break situation for

00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:48.769
you getting to your destination? Well, I would

00:29:48.769 --> 00:29:51.890
just say that something I've learned is that

00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:55.839
you're going to have things out of your control.

00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:59.140
And you're going to have situations where as

00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:03.859
much as you plan ahead and prepare your feet

00:30:03.859 --> 00:30:07.680
and feel like you're in a really good spot to

00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:09.960
prevent blisters, Mother Nature's not going to

00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.400
cooperate with you. And we just had the skies

00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:17.400
open up on us in the Smoky Mountains. We were

00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.640
fortunately in a shelter when things started

00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.700
up. But we knew that the next morning we were

00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.960
going to have to get out and throw on the ponchos

00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:31.599
and just make the best of it. So we were trying

00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:35.160
to stay trying to stay dry as much as we could.

00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:38.000
But it was just a downpour and it got so bad

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.140
that the trail. became more or less a small Creek.

00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.680
Um, so water was over ankle deep, uh, walking

00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:49.000
down and through a bunch of, uh, down the pathway,

00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:51.539
but a lot of it was very rocky section. So got

00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.980
dangerous, slipped a few times, but the worst

00:30:53.980 --> 00:30:57.420
part was we were pretty much under, uh, our feet

00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:59.839
were underwater for most of the morning. Um,

00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.259
which you just, you can't plan for it. And there's

00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:06.480
nothing you can do to, uh, uh, to come out of

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.339
that with, um, with, you know, decent feet. So

00:31:10.339 --> 00:31:14.819
when we finally finished up, it had stopped raining,

00:31:14.900 --> 00:31:17.000
but we were, I think we were walking through

00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.920
rain and in the water six to seven hours that

00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:24.359
day and feet were just destroyed. I mean, waterlogged,

00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.279
blisters had stopped along the way and basically

00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:32.519
just changed socks for no good reason other than

00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:34.400
I needed to get out of the way that I was in.

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.339
And yeah, that was a... Tough, tough dry out

00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:41.799
to spend that next night just trying to get the

00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:45.359
socks and shoes as dry as possible. But by the

00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.819
time you woke up the next day, things were still

00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:50.799
wet. Everything around you was wet. And I had

00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:52.460
to put on wet socks. And I knew it was going

00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:55.099
to be a bad next stretch. And, yeah, pretty much

00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:59.920
got very large, annoying blisters on both feet

00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:03.380
and just couldn't find a way around it. That

00:32:03.380 --> 00:32:06.859
was the last day of that trip. Yeah, it was.

00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.960
It was planned. It did knock us off because it

00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.740
was already the last day, but I was so glad it

00:32:12.740 --> 00:32:14.940
was. Well, there you go. That's another example

00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:16.680
of pushing through when to push through. That's

00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:18.779
the last one. Let's get it done. Well, thanks

00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:20.920
for sharing that, Alex. And before we close,

00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:24.839
I wanted to ask you in one sentence, you know,

00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:26.759
every listener is going to walk away with something

00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:28.579
from this episode. What would you think the most

00:32:28.579 --> 00:32:33.950
important one would be? Nearly every blister

00:32:33.950 --> 00:32:36.390
is preventable. Nearly. You're going to run into

00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:39.029
the Mother Nature's throwing things at you. You

00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:43.450
just can't combat. But most blisters are preventable

00:32:43.450 --> 00:32:45.710
and it's very cheap to prevent them. Good pair

00:32:45.710 --> 00:32:48.829
of socks and taking a little extra time when

00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:52.690
you're getting going. But nearly all blisters

00:32:52.690 --> 00:32:55.130
are preventable if you just take the time to

00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:58.160
do it. Excellent. And I think you've given the

00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.380
listener a gift. You've set up a promo code for

00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:02.779
listeners of the Rutgers Edge. I believe it's

00:33:02.779 --> 00:33:05.460
mudgear .com slash T -R -E. Is that correct?

00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:08.579
That's it for just remember the Rutgers Edge.

00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:12.759
Mudgear .com is our brand site where we have

00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:14.980
all of our socks and shoes and rucking related

00:33:14.980 --> 00:33:17.940
apparel. But you'll type in mudgear .com slash

00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:22.700
T -R -E. And what we've done is we've. created

00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:24.519
a redirect that'll bring you to our rucking collection

00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.819
and it will automatically apply our best discounts

00:33:27.819 --> 00:33:30.359
that are available on socks and shoes at that

00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.680
link. So please check us out. That's excellent.

00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:34.400
Thank you. That's very generous of you, Alex.

00:33:34.539 --> 00:33:36.460
And I'm appreciative. I'm going to go check out

00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:39.039
the website, maybe pick up a few Merino socks

00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.180
myself. Well, Alex, I really appreciate your

00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:43.960
time here. Thanks so much for sharing so much

00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:45.319
of your knowledge with us. I enjoyed it. Thank

00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.019
you. All right. That wraps up my conversation

00:33:48.019 --> 00:33:50.220
with Alex. Again, if you're curious about how

00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.299
blisters form in the first place, go check out

00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:53.980
the first part of our conversation with Alex.

00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.660
It's the previous episode to this one. If you're

00:33:56.660 --> 00:33:58.220
curious about the products that Mud Gear has

00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:00.880
to offer, head on over to mudgear .com slash

00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.900
T -R -E and check out the rucking -related gear

00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:05.779
that they have. If you enjoyed today's episode,

00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:07.460
make sure to follow or subscribe to the show

00:34:07.460 --> 00:34:09.340
in your favorite podcast app so you're notified

00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:11.300
of new episodes, including next week's episode

00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:13.400
where I sit down with Ashley the Amazing and

00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:15.619
we have a talk about why people that strength

00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:17.679
train should be rucking. You're not going to

00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:20.090
want to miss it. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks

00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:22.690
again for listening to this episode of The Rutgers

00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:22.889
Edge.